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RE: A Conversation About "Waking People Up". Is It Our Responsibility? Is Selfishness Altruistic? What Do You Think?

I was sent to hell

Yeah this is what worries me. Bad trips!

I have to admit I have never been to hell. I keep intending the experience but, I keep getting told that I don't need it

You are some masochist you!

It's hard, our language is so limiting that it becomes difficult to explain these understandings and feelings. Because they are pre-language they can not be defined by language. We continue to attempt as best we can. But it can't replicate or replace the experience.

I'm having this problem even without LSD!

Ho?oponopono which teaches as we heal our own wounds

It's interesting that the word (verb) "pono" (πονώ) in Greek means "I'm in pain". Just thought to mention that!

[I've found for me], altruism comes naturally in an environment of abundance. Our culture creates scarcity (wholly artificial) which is why altruism is near non existent in our society.

Interesting. It's quite true that scarcity is manufactured. There really is no such thing. There's plenty for everyone. But the hoarders won't let it be that way.

What I gather from all this, is that despite D's 'awakened' status, the way he expresses himself doesn't really sound all that different from anyone. I can sometimes see narcissism in his words, I can sometimes see the need to share his knowledge, I can hear him using words such as 'the herd'. And so on. Really not all that different from me or anyone. Buddhists at least live differently, they resign earthly possessions etc. Nor have I read anything profound in his words. I mean, I'm assuming Shakespeare for instance never took drugs. But he said some pretty profound things! Other LSD writers, such as Terence Mckenna whom I've mentioned, or Aldous Huxley, said some profound and interesting things. So, it seems to me, no matter how deep your LSD experience, at the end of the day we're back to the real world, where inequality rules. Some people are just better writers, thinkers, whatever. That's the thing that causes the most strife in people I think, the realization that other people might be better (smarter, more beautiful, better in bed, whatever). When people take LSD and feel like they're part of everything, that's mainly the thing that goes away: comparing themselves to others, or individuality. That's why they feel, temporarily, better.

Unless it's a bad trip!

But you went on to mention all that, that he should stop trying to be a teacher and become a facilitator etc. But it was interesting that you said the best way to do that is through selfishness. I'm not so sure about that. I have a friend who says the same and we've talked about this at length. But I don't really know. I guess I would like to know how that translates in practice in order to be able to form a judgement.

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Hi Alex,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply (as always)!

"What I gather from all this, is that despite D's 'awakened' status, the way he expresses himself doesn't really sound all that different from anyone"

First, I was having a more in depth conversation with him before I started to share (some of it more personal to him and I wanted to give him the ability to share if he liked). So, I am not suggesting he did or didn't say anything profound here, nor would I consider him or I "awakened". It is just a word that I find used often in philosophic discussion when one feels they are seeing more clearly than others.

What I was interested in showing is my thoughts on the matter. I wrote all my responses almost mindlessly as I was allowing myself to be distracted when I was working out (given the limited time window to discuss with him). So, I was really sharing my own insights that I gained writing with him.

I'm interested, have you ever tried any psychedelic, or mind altering plants?

"It's interesting that the word (verb) "pono" (πονώ) in Greek means "I'm in pain". Just thought to mention that!"

"You are some masochist you!"

haha, unlikely. The reason I say that is I have experimented, journeyed, and explored with many different plants and techniques (holotropic breath-work, and Shamanic Journeying ) that I will share with you in more detail later, as I'm sure you would find fascinating. My comment of was mainly the desire to seek a single powerful and life altering experience that temporarily opens you up to the infiniteness of our universe and permanently alters our perspectives (as with the two writers I adore and respect can attest, Terrence Mckenna and Aldous Huxley). That is all. Not all 'bad' trips are truly 'bad'. Whatever that word means ;)

Excellent, I didn't know that and that fits perfectly with the discipline. Discussing how any of our pains were brought into our lives specifically for us to heal them. It's a fascinating discipline and has really empowered me to actually deal with some issues that I have been experiencing (as mentioned above).

"Yeah this is what worries me. Bad trips!"

I believe there are at may different types of 'bad trips'. However, the ones that people seek are what he mentioned above. "Going to hell" in my understanding from people who have mentioned the experience is typically recounted as a very favorable experience (That is after the fact). I have seen people completely lose anxious tendencies in a week and others no longer fear death (which was preventing them from pursuing their passions)

You're on a roll! You're thoughts are so thought provoking that it continues to encourage me to write an entire article to best respond. (I am just finishing the last one I promised, I will tag you when I post it) Now, I will start a new one to better explain selfishness and my thoughts on this post :)

I'm interested, have you ever tried any psychedelic, or mind altering plants?

Nope! ... I would have liked to, in the past. But now, because I've had panic attacks before, and because I'm sometimes in a depressive mood, I'm afraid to try those substances! I'm worried they might alter my brain chemistry permanently, in a bad way.

I guess maybe part of the reason relates to what James Randi describes here.

Hahaha, he keeps using this word "real" he even said "actually real" as if there is another level of realness to real... Not my cup of tea ;) This term real doesn't exist.

Fyi science says try mushrooms to cure depression. The point of psychedelics and plant medicine is to alter your brain and body chemistry! I'm surprised you having mentioned terrence mckenna. Have you read much of his work?

Haven't read anything, just watched a lot of youtube videos, and I LOVE how grounded the guy is, despite all his experiments, how very eloquent he is, how he expresses himself and how he uses the language to make strange experiences more palpable for the rest of us. We need more people like him. He wasn't just a mambo-jumbo guy like many of his cohorts seem to be.

Some of his books are on my amazon wish list! :P

I love his writing, it's wonderful! Caution, if you read too much by him you may be encouraged to explore the realms of plant medicine and accidentally heal yourself ;)

I highly recommend it!! Also, a lot of his work is public domain :) Food of the Gods

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