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Wild, Racist Fever Dreams Ensue

in libertarian •  3 months ago

After convention was over I learned there a bunch of confused Libertarians who can't understand the words "unreasonably constrained". This will be the next episode of my podcast, which will come out this Wednesday. I wanted to share a story that was told to me by someone who thinks Libertarianism is somehow an alt-right constitutionalist movement. To give you an idea of how maniacal this person is, they think you are stealing from the government when you protest taxation. I asked this person if they knew what the core principles of libertarian philosophy was, and they said, "Uphold the constitution, and the military." After I stopped laughing I said, "No, really what are they?" You get my point.

So, during the debate to remove the last sentence of Plank 3.4, that person was getting red-faced upset about it. They started cussing and calling everyone a "communist". Again I chuckled and said, "Borders, and their strict control is right out of the Bolshevik playbook. So who is the communist again?" After we passed the correction, they remained upset. After the day was over they posted on facebook how liberal socialists have taken over the party. I had to call them out on it. I asked what they thought the new plank meant. They replied, "Open borders." I then asked what they thought, "unreasonably constrained" meant. Again they replied, "Open borders."

At this point, there really is no arguing with anyone who doesn't have a command of the English language. After I explained that the part of the plank was deleted is not libertarian in any way. I went on to explain that until such a time government ceases to exist, it is reasonable to constrain the movement of someone who poses a threat to life and property. It is unreasonable to constrain them if all they are here to do was work at jobs that Dillon and Madison refuse to do for the money offered.

To my shock and horror this brought out a racist tirade from them I was not expecting. "What happens when armed immigrants take over my trailer with their diseased children, and change the locks?" That's right, this person has a paranoid delusion that if they leave their trailer, an armed band of immigrants will show up with their 19 children who all happen to have every early 20th century factory worker disease, will take over and lock them out. I asked how many times this very thing has happened over the years. Unsurprisingly, they couldn't cite a single example of it happening before.

Beware those so-called Libertarians who think we are the Constitution Party, Pot smoking Republicans, or Democrats who can balance a check book. Strict control over the border is Statist thinking. The only borders that should be respected are those that surround private property. The very thing a border wall would disintegrate. The government will use eminent domain to confiscate the land from property owners to build this monument to Trump. That will only lead to more illegal immigration. Also it will be used to keep people in when the economy finally goes tits up after the Fed runs it into the ground.

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Yes!
Walls are not a symbol of Freedom.
Remember, fences are put up to keep livestock IN.

I think open borders are idealistic and ultimately not plausible at this moment in time. With our current government programs, letting anyone and everyone in would be unsustainable seeing as though the majority of illegal aliens are attracted to Westernized countries for the welfare benefits.

If you want to support true open borders you must also declare first the need for the abolishment of any and all welfare programs. Then people may come and go as they please, though it's likely that much fewer would actually be arriving.

Also, open borders doesn't necessarily mean unfettered access. I think it's also important for the US and European countries to require some sort of check-in. We have had certain illnesses in Arizona crop back up that had previously been nearly eradicated because of unchecked immigration. That actually does pose a giant health threat to these countries that have managed to get a handle on these things.

I don't agree with how this person said what he said, but some of it isn't entirely untrue. Private borders are great, but you still have to go to public spaces and interact with people.

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I also want the abolishment of 95% of the government in the near term. It is reasonable to constrain someone's movements if they pose a health or security risk. It is unreasonable to constrain a person's movement just because they want to go work a job, or seek some modicum of freedom. There never seems to be a problem with the Canadian border, which for the most part, is as porous as a sponge.

Spreading the message of liberty to the people of other countries is important as well. If the conditions in their hometown have improved, then they will stay there. Most of these people are pessimistic about their current situation, which is why they are voting with their feet.

Is a complete Anarcho-Capitalist utopia ever going to happen in my lifetime? Doubtful, but I can aspire to it. Even if it does, it would be a small area with less than 100,000 people at first. Probably not on this planet either!

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You know that most welfare is received by American citizens and corporations, right? Are you really worried about the tiny amount that goes to the children of illegals (since the actual illegals can't get it)? How about we shut down the border police, ICE, etc. and put that money into infrastructure.

Shut down the empire, and put that towards health care. If it were up to me, all welfare would end. That would include corporate and individual welfare. Until it does though, I say we bleed the beast to death by a thousand cuts. Everyone should get every dime of their taxes back as possible without being shot or put in a cage.

We should also be worried that the war on "illegal immigration" is actually a war on US citizens. We now have a 100 mile wide "border" after all. The government already doesn't abide by the Bill of Rights or US Constitution, but it is even worse within that 100 mile thick area where almost all people live. Convenient, ehh? Papers, please! What, no papers?! You're off to prison.

Also keep in mind that Trump is looking into ways to strip US citizens of their citizenship for simple things like not standing for the national anthem. Uhm, what?! This place is quickly becoming a prison. All the bordertarians apparently don't realize it either, but THEY are the target, not the migrants. While people rage on about illegals, the march towards total fascism continues.

Want to leave the country now while you still can? Sure, just give up 55% of your wealth on the way out the door. Don't pay your taxes? Oh, well, sorry but your passport will be revoked. Don't you see where this is headed? It's not a good place either.

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I never said corporations don't receive welfare.

Do two wrongs make a right?

You seem to go off on a tangent irrelevant to my points, so I am not going to take the time to address the rest of what you wrote.

Please look into welfare stats from Europe due to mass migration in order to see the devastation it has left on many European countries.

If you can't see that people migrate to these western countries for the handouts, you are downright blind. It isn't fair to citizens to have their money stripped from them either by corporate or illegal immigrant welfare.

We aren't quite there yet, but if Hilary or Bernie had won the presidential election, that's where we would be.

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You seem to have missed the primary point entirely. Illegals can't get welfare. Their children can, sure. The actual illegal cannot. You're complaining about something that simply isn't true. You've been lied to. Go look up the numbers yourself if you care to know the truth. What the children of illegals get in welfare is a TINY fraction of total spending by the US government. Most immigrants actually help our GDP and give back way more than they take.

It would be nice if the international border was simply the boundary between two pieces of private property owned by citizens of different countries.

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The border cuts through some indigenous reservations, so, that's not possible. That land is held collectively, and exists on both sides of the border.

Talking shop with Libertarians can sometimes be like playing Jenga only instead of smooth wooden blocks we use spikey ones stacked as far as the eye can see that have the power to level entire cities if they come crashing down too hard too fast. We all agree that the structure (the government) needs to come down but we passionately disagree which brick we should remove first.

I for one, would like to live in a society with out a police force but do support border security. Explaining that position may take a long while but I'm always up for the challenge ;)

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What an odd endorsement of recreational nukes! lol

That is why the concept of a mutual aid network exists. We all have neighbors, and if we choose to sign a contract to patrol and police ourselves that is completely in line with voluntarism. Wait a minute, that sounds like a militia. hmmm

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I'm in, I will except a stipend of steak and whiskey lol

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You already know I'm a strong supporter of the militia as it was meant to be: all able bodied people. It is voluntary and only called up for defense too.