The CIA's Halloween Massacre, 1977

in informationwar •  2 months ago

Was the Halloween massacre of 1977 an attempt to subvert the CIA by the Deep State?

This post was started for a deepdives contest some months ago; I didn't finish it for the contest, but I still wanted to share this information.

This post is based on this article from the CIA archives
Halloween Massacre

I had been aware of this event, (see My Bias, below), but this gave me a chance to dive in a little deeper.

I'll start by looking at the Halloween Massacre of 1977 itself, and it's effects. Then I'll look at the event as a possible attempt by the Deep State to further it's influence and control over the CIA.

To that end, I will look at Stansfield Turner, Carter's DCIA, and then Carter himself and his administration, which is heavily staffed by Trilateral Commission members.

This will lead to a deeper look at other members of Carter's administration, including a new appointee to the CIA...Frank Carlucci.

Carlucci then leads us to look at the Carlyle group and it's own connections to Deep State organizations such as the Council of Foreign Relations.

You'll note that I offer conflicting pieces of data; I am not going to tell you what these relationships mean, because I myself do not know. In fact, I will be asking more questions than giving answers.

My bias- I believe that the national security element of the Deep State had it's origin in the creation of the CIA and the infestation of FDR appointees into the federal government in the Depression years.

(a thought for later...did FDR give the FBI increased powers in the expectation that it would be used by the Deep State, an expectation that J. Edgar Hovver's longevity as Director delayed for decades?)

I had been looking for an event in which the "old hands" of the OSS were purged from the CIA, allowing the introduction of a more loyal element to the Deep State. The originations of the Deep State likely originate in centralized banking systems.

This falls into my greater overview that there is not one greater kakistocracy that controls every aspect of life, but rather competing corrupt organizations and ideologies that subvert legitimate purposes.

Ultimately, I consider the Deep State to be a globalist/leftist alliance at present.

The Massacre

On October 31, 1977, the first wave of pink slips went out from the Carter Administration to 198 CIA agents on the DDO side, the first wave of a 20% reduction in covert operations personnel. The public claim was that this was budgetary, and indeed, there have been several Halloween Massacres in federal employment history due to fiscal year functions.

Example -The 1975 Halloween Massacre, in which many "country club" Republicans were replaced with neo-conservatives.

Results of the 1977 massacre

  • diminished capability to protect america
  • old hands OSS targeted
  • intelligence from defectors ignored (Shackley)
  • reduced counterintelligence capabilities
  • morale issue caused massive retirement

Stansfield Turner

I was unable to find any real connection of Turner to Deep State figures other then Jimmy Carter, who was a Naval Academy classmate, So I will begin the web of relationships with Carter. For the most part, Turner continued Bush's policies, but with a change of emphasis from paramilitary action to intelligence collection and analysis.. But also appointing several high-ranking naval officers, known as the "Navy mafia": I was unable to track down any of these "navy mafia" individuals, who may have provided additional linkage.

Turner did not have an intelligence background, but was supposedly an organizational expert.

Carter And The Deep State--The Web of Relationship

Carter seems to be one of the first with ties to both the Left and the globalists

  • The Carter Center is also funded by Soros (marietta912)

In 2016 alone, the State Department and USAID fell into the highest category of donors to the Carter Center

  • Frank Carlucci
    In the Carter Administration, Carlucci became Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (’78-81). Carlucci is worth an indepth study of his own. Everything I had read from him and about him indicates a high level of competency. That does not mean he isn't a his relationship with the Carlyle group brings us to Rubinstein

  • David M. Rubenstein...

"We've actually replaced the Trilateral Commission" as the darling of conspiracy theorists, says Rubenstein -- who, truth be told, happens to be a member of the Trilateral Commission.
Rubenstein transformed himself from a young Carter White House policy wonk
The Carlyle Group – Co-Founder and Co-Chief Executive Officer[3]
Council on Foreign Relations – Chairman[50]
The hiring of Frank C. Carlucci brought more than just the instant name recognition of one of the most dedicated public servants of the last three decades. It brought baggage—boatloads of baggage. Over time, the pattern of Carlyle's hiring practices emerges to reveal a series of old friends helping one another out. Norris helps out Malek, who brings in Carlucci, who helps land James Baker III, who places a call to George Bush Sr.

Could it be that elements of the Deep State are a result of expanded government spending rather than the cause of it?

1988, Operation Ill Wind swept through the Pentagon, exposing a ring of corruption, bribery, and fraud that would eventually send dozens of officials to jail for rigging the awarding of defense contracts.

The US Attorneys involved in Ill Wind

  • Assistant Attorney General William F. Weld
  • Assistant Attorney General Edward S.G. Dennis -After the announcement, the White House issued a statement saying Mr. Bush intended to nominate Robert S. Mueller, an assistant to Mr. Thornburgh, to replace Mr. Dennis. The head of the Justice Department's criminal division
  • U.S. Attorney Henry Hudson
  • Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Aronica

Carlyle formed in 1987; did attempt to gain Unisys, but was unable to.

George Soros is an investor in the Carlyle Group

  • Interesting notes
    Niether Carlucci or Rubinstein was born into the purple.


Stanfield may not have been a Deep State hack, but his actions continued the policies of other deep state hacks, and hurt the interest of the United States

--cuttings razing defense budget
multiple causes for any action; Brez hate of Russians, personality affecting politics

...down the rabbit hole; relationships do not always indicate conspiracy

BRIODY: I certainly hope that Michael Moore doesn't take the vast right wing conspiracy path. Those kind of viewpoints, a la Cynthia McKinney, tend to undermine what is really important in this story, which is the general level of acceptance by the American people of the revolving door in Washington, D.C.


Threat to secrecy of DDO ops from "so-called" intelligence professionals who expose intelligence to "defend" Agency, redress Agency wrongs or for personal
Fromm interview (CIA Archives)

Critical thinking

  • Relations do not mean hierarchical command relationships (but they can do so; it requires additional evidence to PROVE)
  • There are usually not "either/or causes"...A corruptocrat may simply be out for a little extra kickback, and not involved with a kakistocracy
  • We must be aware of our biases in interpreting data, events, and relationships. The relationships I have shown will be considered de facto proof of conspiracy by folks who are pre-disposed to that worldview. However, they provide a starting point for looking for proof
  • Finally, there will be areas in which proof can NOT be provided; Understanding What We Can't See - Conspiracy, "Debunking", and Absence of Evidence
    In such cases we have to use our best judgement in presenting arguments, and maintain a rational approach.


Briody, D. (2003). The iron triangle: inside the secret world of the Carlyle Group. New York: J. Wiley.

marietta912. (2018, May 13). Court Demands Records on CARTER CENTER Terror Support. Retrieved June 3, 2018, from

Shackley, T., & Finney, R. A. (2014). Spymaster: My Life in the Cia. Potomac Books, Inc.

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Trump writes in his book about a time Jimmy Carter came to his office and asked him for 2 million dollars. He thought he was an ineffective president and an empty suit but he admired his balls.


I have despised Carter for many years, and everything that I hear about him makes the contempt grow greater

  • start hating Carter at 10 years old for the hostage debacle
  • go to college; one professor was an ex-SF officer, a Jewish convert to Islam who had trained to be dropped into Central Russia (Chechnya etc) and generate an Islamic revolution if war broke out between US/Russia...this guy claimed that Carter called the Shah and congratulated him on using Cobras to mow down pro-democracy protestors; which reminds me I need to track down that professor and that story
  • return from Corps and finish college; study Nicaragua...Carter supported Sandanistas even as they vowed war against America
  • watch Carter sell out North Korean populace for a "no-nuke" stance which they immediately violate during Clintoon Admin

And here is something that always pops up in trying to determine an exact Deep State structure

The Deep State may be an Israeli driven conspiracy (one theory), but both Carter and Obama are extremely anti-Israeli, and both are firmly at the nexus of leftist/globalist alliance theory...


I think the deep state is a probably lot closer to home.


I can see all sorts of possibilities and alignments, so I like to warn about falling in love with any one theory.

Hell, we could all be getting run out of Riyadh for all I know ;>


That would explain this:

But I think it's just a bunch of lefties in DC and NYC and Hollywood and perhaps Soros and some European globalists.


until we can get the usual suspects in and waterboard them, I don't think we'll ever get an accurate view of the entire the structure is fluid as new alliances are made and old ones discarded


To some extent it seems like ISIS or Operation Mayhem, there are cells and an ideology that anyone can ascribe to and act on.


and when one hand doesnt know what the other is doing, like having the DOD and CIA supporting opposing sides of Syrian rebels (which COULD have been intentional, I just don't think so)

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