RE: Drugwars - 48h to get Ready!
I have no problem with the rule changes because they most likely need to be made. I do have a problem the way you realeased this game and the rules to the game AFTER we send you dump trucks full of Steem. Why the fuck would I need 6 gozillion gunman if your limiting the battles to 200 troops? You cost me ROI by not spending it on other things. Your half assed launch is unfair to investors.....I will never back another project you guys are involved in for this exact reason. You realease a product when it’s ready for market and that’s exactly why we all don’t use iPhone prototypes. This is flat out wrong to do to investors but it’s what people been doing for years to each other and it’s a shame with this great blockchain technology that it has to continue. Shame on you for doing this the way you did, you lost a large investor and project backer like me forever. “You can shear a sheep many times....but you can only skin them once!”
Congratulations! You have been awarded the 1st and so far only Drama Token!
You may view your token in either the keychain wallet or https://steem-engine.com
If this is the first drama token ever this has got to be a brand new thing on this site...
That's right. I just created the drama token using steem-engine.com
You are valuable! I suddenly wish I was more dramatic!
You know, I saw that token in the SE lineup, and wondered about it.
The mystery is solved =p
Thanks!
The first and only so far drama token?!? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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LOL, I see more drama on the way!
Well, it is the only one so far! :) I didn't want to reward flag belly aching so.. I needed a good overly dramatic complaint, to get the ball rolling.
Loved it, major kudos hun😂
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You are not an investor;
you are a player.
You played the game incorrectly.
Nuff said.
I totally agree with you, I invested STEEM too, but I don't complain, because it's just a game and not a STOCK lol, and for what's worth, I think I'll get back my initial investment in about 40-50 days, also imagine if he wasn't a big investor on the game, you would have loved the new rules, only the whales are hating, because they have no POWER now, only STRATEGY moves👌🏼
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Good luck with 40-50 days, I think that is optimistic.
Well, that's the estimation given by the book keeper 😬
Yes, and it is very misleading. It calculates straight line ROI, but clearly there is an exponential curve, the half life of the payouts (how long it takes for payouts to half) seems to be about 15 days. Which means, very conservatively, you will be lucky to break even in double that time, more likely it will be closer to 4-5x the time it estimates for numbers over 30 days.
So the slogan “ the drug store are fake but the MONEY is real” is not true? I am an investor douch bag.
You forgot to add a comma there,
so you just called yourself an "investor douche bag".
Classic.
I laughed so hard I may need to reposition my spleen.
Thanks!
Hahaha, I had to upvote this one 😂
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This got me, hahahaha.
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Is that a promise of profit? Is Steem not real? Your assumptions about gameplay mechanics being investment grade opportunity are the issue, and your failure to do one damn bit of due diligence about gameplay mechanics being profit generating mechanisms is a strong source of doubt regarding your claim that you are an investor.
I will reiterate that this is an opportunity for you to profit greatly by grasping investing better. Warren Buffet is an investor, one that many folks admire greatly for his understanding of investing. Compare what he does to what you did, and you may better avoid misapprehensions of investment opportunities going forward. Every investment bears risk, and failing to do due diligence is not standard procedure for investors, because it practically guarantees losses instead of capital gains.
It may not be apparent, but no one can assess risk for you. If you blame others for your failures to do so, you will be unable to undertake that necessary function of investing.
Consider the optics dude.
Investor in what? 2000 gunman? Let that sink in... ohh boy, what are you smoking?
Come on, you invested into the GAME before it had any specific rules or whatever (!) - so you as the big investor basically bought the "iPhone prototype".....
Not everyone is capable of investing this amount into a game, but your Gunman will also defend your investment...
I spent $$$$$ on over 2000 gunman but can only use 200 in a battle according to this post. What dont you understand about this?????
I am unsure from this post, but it doesn't really say you can't use your 2000 gunmen, you just can't use them on a single battle. What if you can send 200 to 10 battles simultaneously? I'm not saying it is possible, because I don't know. But what if you could? You're drawing conclusions too early I believe...
The cost of A million gunmen
https://steemit.com/drugwars/@elektropunkz/drugwars-one-million-troops
The only question of matter is why you invest $$$$$$ for 2k Gunman BEFORE you know what is going to happen about the battle system!!!!!!?
Besides, maybe a Gunman counts 2 in population ;D.^^
Well I don’t know.....I guess it would be the post by drug wars encouraging everyone to continue to build troops and not to stop. Now if you know there is a cap on the troops that can battle and your telling us ALL to develop more troops, shouldn’t I get to know in advance that haveing that many is worthless if you can only battle with a few at a time? #sketchy
You invested 6k STEEM into a structure that from day 1 said it would only pay out 80% of it's income.
Break-even for the few top "investors" was completely impossible to begin with... unless even bigger whales started spending later on.
This was clear from the get-go due to the progressive upgrade costs and the payout structure and it has hardly changed at all with the progressive rule updates.
If you got into this to make an ROI... then you made your mistakes two weeks ago and these combat rules changing has very little to do with it!
There is some kind of difference between building and buying troops with $$$$ :D.
As i said before, you simply should have been waiting until you could find out about what is going to happen (now!^^). They announced that they will let us know about 48h before the new system will launch, so buying units after you found out what is going to happen does not sound like a problem to me and yea, there are way more units than gunners to come, maybe they release some of those tomorrow... another point to concider ;D.
It´s still a very heavy defence, but i think the combination of different units is going to be more important in the end, we´ll see, but i wouldn´t say that they are worthless.^^
I feel in a way greed made invest in 2000 gunmen. Your intentions was to trample all over the little guys and rob them of all there possessions. In them saying build ur army I'm sure they didn't expect any to spend some much. For the average player 200 gunman is probably unreachable. I'm glad they made the change so guys like you can't take to much advantage of us who are building slowly. Sometimes being a whale is not all its cracked up to be.
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Exactly! It's the reason they did it. All the whales want is to dominate and get it all.
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Just wipe us little out, well no more of that.
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It counts 21 in population.
I don't understand that playing a game that is under development is considerable as an investment opportunity.
I don't understand your ire at the devs for improving their game.
I don't understand your use of the word 'skinned' in reference to playing a game.
I don't understand the Electric Universe Theory, but that doesn't mean I'm going to pay one of it's theorists to explain it to me and call that an investment and demand a financial return.
I do understand investing. Despite that gold farming goes on in many games today, I know better than to consider playing a game a financial investment.
I believe you may be getting a handle on that now. For you sake, I do hope so.
actually you can only use 9 in one battle...their population cost is 21
I am wrapping my head around what appears to be an exotic perspective for me regarding Steem. While being rewarded for producing content as a mechanism preferable to producing content without reward is easy to grasp, and is a seemingly important advance in society, I am struggling with viewing playing a game as being an investor in the game.
I do see that paying into game mechanics delivers financial power to the game development company, but fail to grasp that this is comparable to investing, despite the specific mechanics of the game itself - which I note was repeatedly and demonstrably stated by the devs to be certain to undergo revision.
'Investor' is a term for a person that is providing necessary funds to an entity in exchange for returns that the investment vehicle seeks for the purpose of creating increased value of the investment vehicle, and has traditionally been conducted through specific mechanisms, such as stocks, bonds, and lending.
Steem has altered landscape by enabling returns to be generated with non-traditional vehicles, but I do not grasp how your expectations of return are reasonable in this specific vehicle, particularly as - again, despite the initial mechanism of the game - this is clearly a game, and your provision of funds was not through purchasing equity in the company developing the game (if there even is one), but simply through playing the game.
Methinks you have assumed too much from being able to generate profitable returns via Steem transforming non-traditional mechanisms so that they potentiate returns. Critically, investment vehicles provide a prospectus, and investors do due diligence, neither of which appear to have been undertaken here.
I am confident that you are able to gain from this situation, by being better informed as to the difference between an investment and profiteering. Profiteering can produce returns - but such returns aren't really investment returns, and such vehicles potentiating profiteering aren't investment grade opportunities.
I appreciate your position better now from your post, and gain insight from it, so thank you. I hope you also gain insight from how Steem is transforming investment, and how such transformative events inevitably are fraught with risk. When paradigms change, legacy risk assessment no longer pertains, and you (I have not investigated your history at all) appear to have been able to parlay a good grasp of the novel potential of Steem rewards into good returns heretofore. Of course, even in traditional investment vehicles risk is present, and even after due diligence investors fail to attain returns, and even lose stake, at times.
Given the paradigmatic novelty here, you would be remiss to fail to take such risks in stride in your pecuniary pursuits.
If you'd invested in a vehicle intended for the purpose, provisioned with a prospectus and having conducted due diligence which was now proving to have been tainted with mendacity, I would agree that you had 'been skinned'.
But assuming playing a game was an investment grade vehicle and undertaking the risk of that assumption, it is pretty ludicrous to accuse the devs of defrauding you. I understand your disappointment. However, the responsibility for the failure to generate a return from outlays is your own, for misapprehending playing a game as a worthy investment vehicle. Just as a bit of reference, ever since Everquest, games have been actively discouraging players from generating profit from their games. No promises of profitable returns were made, and the devs made very clear that the game was being actively developed, and that therefore extant mechanisms were transitory. Your assumptions to the contrary should be enlightening to you, and your outrage might be better directed at the person that made insuperable assumptions than at devs making a game playable, and not seeking to solicit investments.
With appropriate consideration, I expect you can find this experience to be pure profit, particularly going forward in an evolving landscape.
Thank you.
Sorry but you are wrong. If you are looking from investment perspective then you have to keep in mind all players and not only your own business. The fact that small players wont be slaughtered is very good because it will keep them playing. If they would leave then you will be left with empty game that nobody plays.
These people that that dropped $1,000+ into the game don't want the small players, because they drastically reduce their daily payout. That's why they're all whining... because they failed spectacularly in their ability to analyze the game before making a massive investment.
Haha! You are the best.
So true, they are mad that they played the game like fools.
Thanks for the free money dumb dumbs.
There is no such thing as a @drugwars investor.
There are @drugwars players.
That is all.
Yup :) LOLZ
Sorry but YOU are wrong. Small players should get stolen from to incentivize upgrading with Steem purchases. small players are depositing a lot of production in the heist in relation to bigger investors. Small players should take a hit from bigger operations....a serious hit.....just like in real life. This game is set up to favor small investors for returns.
This game was created in three weeks.
This game doesn't have investors.
If @drugwars wants to stop giving us ROI and take the entire prize pool for themselves, nothing is stopping that from happening. You are owed nothing.
Or they could have let us use the product with dummy resources without having to spend actual money in the development phase.
I do agree that the project is in beta version as per what it says on the front end. However, when you are accepting investors money, the change in rules shouldn't make the investment useless.
Also its quite sad to see ROI going down day by day. Breakeven period is nearly more than 200 days for me after investing nearly 3500+ steems. Can't complain as I should have thought before investing.
ROI going down every day is totally expected behavior as people level up their production. Soon returns from the heists will go down as the bigger players with highest production levels can train the best troops and raid most.
my break even period with these new rules.....never.....I can complain because they changed FUNDAMENTAL rules after taking my Steem. I am actually talking to someone now about what i can do legally about this situation, I have lots of resources available to me. They devalued my investment with rule changes and these changes effect the big investors the most because they have lots of troops built up and thats money wasted when you can only use 200. If i invested more i should be able to steal more with my troops....they have handcuffed us and made the player with barely any investment have an unfair advantage because they have not the liquid resources to build a large army to protect building assets. If I wanted to play only "a game" i would have drove to the pawn shop and bought an old playstation where the graphics from 1995 are even better than Drug Wars. This is a game but most of all an investment tool to slowly build some Steem. Right now it's a HEAPING PILE OF SHIT INVESTMENT for me and lots of others. Others like Steemmonsters let us invest and they protected my large investment with limited cards, an internal market and daily rewards that we could sell for ROI. Thats how you do business.
I am laughing so hard I can hardly type.
Playing DW in your mind is somehow comparable to investing in one of Bernie Madoff's scams.
Thanks!
YOU ARE A HEAPING PILE OF SHIT INVESTOR... and now stop the whining...
Let me know when you have enough Steem to wash your car.
Do let us know when Steem has some carwashing ability.
Please keep doubling down on the investment theory regarding this game. It's very entertaining.
Do consider the fact @nokodemion pointed out, as it is very applicable in this situation. Insofar as you do not, I can predict more of these tragic disappointments providing observers quality entertainment.
Slow down there for a second.
You have 2k troops of one specific type. Soon you will know against which troops they are most effective. At the same time you have super high production levels and can thus train more of the new troops which will soon be introduced.
With a little bit of study, yes this type of games actually requires that to know what troops to send against what troops, within some days you will be one of the players banking most and diluting the returns of the daily heists every day from your raiding.
Those 2k gunman aren’t lost. I wouldn’t recommend sending 200 in a battle (or 200 pop count), that may very well be kamikaze, but there will be combinations of opponents against which you can use them.
Over time... you’re going to have tens of thousands of troops and quite a lot will die when raiding. Those 2k aren’t lost. You just don’t know yet when and how to use them.
Surprisingly enough these games have a degree of strategy: don’t use archers against cavalry type of strategy.
While the daily returns will always dwindle, you big guys with the huge production levels can churn out most troops so if you are a good player.... you will raid most resources day after day. Depending on how many resources you raid... you top level players will totally dominate the daily heists.
I fully understand your point BUT.....for the production levels you get for the amount of Steem as payment the ROI still won’t be high enough at only 30% storage theft and 12 hour lockouts. This is a “decent” investment for players with under 100 Steem invested. Large investors should see drug production jump and get decent ROI at every level. 50% raid and 6-8 hour lockouts would be more fair....as well as token distribution “tiers” if they ever make some sort of SMT you can earn. I just don’t feel like my investment is protected enough.
That was always a sinking ship. The only returns, and that is entirely depending on continued development and new introductions to keep the whales spend on consolidating the value of their “empire” (classic MMO strategy from the CFO’s dept.) are the daily heists for you guys. The production share is an inflation pool you can’t frontrun.
I’ve written several posts about the ROI (from the minnow angle), the “quicksand” element of the production pool and even the potential “ponzi element” in the game. Yet, I also look at all sides and today I even edited my comment on this post to suggest 50% and 8hrs rather than 30% and 12hrs.
These changes were needed but indeed 25% and 12hrs is too much towards one side. Towards the minnow side and that’s wrong too.
I don’t know how far my voice carries with the DW team but let’s hope they read and do some math on 8hrs/50%. 🤘
Addendum: obviously, I decided against investing so I don’t know the higher level production levels but it seems every upgrade is linear. That’s wrong, especially since the instant upgrade price of every further level is higher. Production levels should increase in an exponential curve.
Finally a comment that actually makes some sense! I want to see this work just like everyone else but I wanna build something that is fair for minnows and whales and this set of rules is not fair. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Another weakness is the need for a mechanism which prevents an empire to attack the same empire for xx hours (I suggest 72hrs).
Otherwise low investment ROI hunters (guilty as charged) can reset their protection shield from an alt by just sending 2 bouncers. The best low level ROI hunters have 0 troops.
At 8hrs protection and 72hrs cool down it would require 9 alts. That’s still just about manageable but it starts to become a chore already.
Nothing some smart dev couldn’t automate and operate over hundreds of accounts but it minimizes the incentive for most users due to the level of accounts required to make things work. Abuse on this type of mechanics (and chain) will always exist but it should be minimized as much as possible.
The protection reset loophole is too easy right now.
I am aware of no games that allow botting.
While the devs seem not to have undertaken to prevent that yet, I am sure they will - or the game will die. While botting may still be possible (most games continue to have the issue) It's probably not gonna be an easy mechanism to profit from.
I can think of plenty of ways to detect the kinds of bots you are discussing, and ending their disruption of people playing for fun will be essential to make this game worth playing.
It's game, and games are meant to provide entertainment value. Whales swatting players for ROI is definitely gonna decrease the entertainment value of the game for players intent on the purpose of the game.
If you start using alt accounts in the way you describe, expect the alts to be banned soon to prevent the burden of programming the mechanisms you refer to to permit them to be useful in the game.
I note you are continuing to misapprehend the situation. The devs are making a game, and that game will either stand or fall depending on players continuing to play and entering the game.
Either 'minnows' are going to join because they can prosper, or the game will die.
If the game becomes simply a vehicle which potentiates whales to spend lotsa money on units that can strip minnows of assets, who's gonna play?
The object of a game is entertainment. ROI is not the purpose of a game. ROI is the purpose of an investment vehicle. There is a difference - even if there are opportunities to generate returns.
Many RPGs have some kind of internal economy. Almost all of them have been used to generate financial returns via 'gold farming', and Chinese boiler room type operations are notorious for seeking to generate financial returns from such games.
This is harmful to the games because it's harmful to the player community. It creates inflation, amongst other problems, and most games do what they can to discourage it.
Games =/= stocks.
I do think that you have totally misread my reply as how I think about the game.
It is an analysis of the actual situation, we also are in world of money. On that basis many take different approaches, ROI being one of them.
Yet, given your black and white opening... i really couldn’t care less about the rest.
I’ve given a large part of my life to MMOs and that is what this is for me. That’s I can also look at and understand others who look at things differently seems beyond you. That i ran a mini ROI experiment does not define me, or maybe it does because i love experiments.
Aware of the inevitable economic changes coming, I also endeavored to ensure I attained an ROI greater than 100%. My understanding of your considerations of this game come from several comments that are all little more than financial analyses. Little mention of other aspects of games was evident, so if you do have a broader interest in the game, this is actually the first indication of it.
I say it a lot, but society is far more than an economy, and this is no less true of games. Folks that singlemindedly focus on economic factors may enjoy that, but I don't, and neither do most people. Steem being what it is, there's a significant concentration of people that think like that here, and our trending page reflects that.
My hope is that as more dapps are formed, and more communities based on various interests grow, mere financial bean counting will be ever less in evidence going forward. I've got far more important things to worry about, consider, and enjoy.
If I have misunderstood your interest, it is because all I had to go on was your comments, and they deal almost exclusively on economic factors.
The game isn't meant as making you profit though. Profit can only be obtained if you're small (sub-100 steem) or got in early (and even then it'll be hard).
I get your frustration, but this should've been clear to you from the start.
They made quite strange changes earlier on, including turning the 89% of all in-game purchases added to the pool into only 80% (Almost DOUBLING the amount of steem that's lost through each cycle).
I get your frustration, but for now I just recommend trying to make the best out of it :)
I think exactly like you, I would like ti know how 200 troops can attack an opponent who defends with 1000 troops of the same type ... they have created a system that benefits those who have invested less.
It’s called research. @Broncnutz’ gunmen will attack yours with a Tommy Gun 1928 while yours are defending with a .38 Smith & Wesson with 6 rounds.
"Or they could have let us use the product with dummy resources without having to spend actual money in the development phase."
Ummmm they did. You were given the first drug, weapon, and alcohol house for that very reason.
Nobody told you you had to spend your own money, much less ~$1,000, on a game. You made that decision all on your own, while failing to miss the obvious variable of how a growing gamer population would effect your % payout.
Meh! That’s why I mentioned “can’t complain” . I never told somebody made me invest with a gun pointed at my throat 😁 I liked the project so invested, if they impress more I ll invest more, “simple” .
I agree. Dummy resources would have worked just fine. Get a taste of how the game would look like before investing real money. I was so lucky to have broken even just a few days back. i only invested about 45+ steem (mostly on gunmen), and having watched all of my troops disappear without a fight along with my steem, i had to think twice about where i throw money into.
you didn't "have to" do any spending... You could have watched it develop.
Also, TBH this project I see as one of the potential project bringing life back to what was a nearly dead STEEM! I don't want this to fail just like anyone else here. Just want to make sure people who invested have freedom to express what they feel irrespective of rest of the things.
Please refer to my above sentence. I'm not complaining about my investment Sir! Merely expressing some emotions as a human.
While I do agree that one ought to have more caution when releasing a game that presents an in-game economy and invites speculators to make decisions based on the expressed rules, I still think it was clearly expressed that this was still an alpha version and that the 1.0 version of the game was still ways off. As a result, I think people looking to "invest" at that early stage should view it more as a time period to support its development by joining the trial and error process. One positive part of Steem imo is that it gives developers the opportunity to launch a minimum viable product early and harvest feedback from the community on what works and what is broken. So while I do agree with your criticism, I'm not sure I would choose to be this ruthless.
Edit: I am also putting some devs to work on our own game that will carry similar traits but in a different setting and some other elements that will hopefully spice up the mechanics. If you have any further suggestions for how you would like a game like Drugwars to be then I'm all ears.
Something that is very obvious from this present situation is the nature of the whales of Steem, and their relation to actual investors.
There seems to be some lack of intersection, and the degree of difference between the two is being revealed by DW. It seems certain that this will not be the last educational opportunity for whales to grasp the difference between having had an opportunity to mine up some Steem, or rake in some returns, early, and investing in an appropriate vehicle to generate capital gains.
That some folks have seriously considered plunking down cold, hard cash for ingame assets an investment will prove highly educational for all concerned, and not merely those that did so. Certainly what the DW devs are learning will be applicable in future endeavors, and by other teams as well, both developing games and other apps. The general community will certainly learn from this too. We see similar educational opportunities arising in Steem Monsters as well.
It is exactly the furor and upset that will best provide incentive to those who might benefit most from it. This is the way to learn what due diligence means. I hope you are able to profit from this situation in your development efforts. Were I you, I'd give @broncnutz pursuit of legal remedies particularly careful consideration. Even frivolous tort actions are undesirable, particularly for a developer without significant legal counsel and depth of pocket.
Hi @fredrikaa, we are a smal group of players that would gladly help put with the project:-)
Tbh... people “investing” should at the very least have to make sure that there’s a smart contract (or at least an oracle) and not a database.
Yet, in an environment where people knowingly calculate ROI... this game’s early launch was absolutely mediocre. This type of backlash was expected, it was written on the wall even.
There’s [closed] betas to gather feedback. They prevent possibly burning your own rep and experiencing heaps of unnecessary headaches. They have always existed, for eons. That shouldn’t need people to invest actual crypto.
You could use a large army with thousands of troops to attack lots and lots of players in lots and lots of battles simultaneously. There is no need to send an overwhelming force to destroy a player with 200 defence, when you could spread your army out to attack literally thousands of others at the same time.
This could encourage some interesting strategies in the long term, and give people a smart way of targeting many medium (large), or even small players at the same time. The cooldown, or protection racket that the update talks about means that will be another element of strategy in picking your fights.
At present, I can't see how 200 troops of any kind is going to make a dent on some of the top defenses. It seems like there is no limit to the number of troops that will defend, so a limit on attack suggests anyone with 1000's of troops at base is pretty safe?
Most likely on imbalances in the troops levels.
For example if there’s more cavalry then send infantry to take out that imbalance. Updates like this, combined with research levels, don’t necessarily serve to make whales vulnerable on their empire. They serve in giving defender a chance of beating an inbound attack. “Traps” are a nice and fun player type, a good trap is very lethal and can beat most inbound attacks from even the biggest spenders. Just one or two only, but that’s satisfactory for them.
I’ve seen raids in Game of War with 4.7m attacking troops torch empires with 200m defending troops. And I’ve seen that same amount of attacking troops get busted on only 11m defenders. A good trap is something to steer away from as attacker.
Traps could be an interesting addition. I do think at present attackers will be put off after the rule changes but we shall soon see.
I'm still waiting for the Strip-joint as a new building addition. It could serve 2 purposes: increase loyalty and return rate of troops, and also act as a distraction to attackers - level up ya whores!
You should go to Denver, Colorado. There’s a [cannabis] vape lounge in a strip mall.
Two birds in one go. And got that Tinder addiction of yours fixed too. That’s 3-in-1! :D
A high level strip joint could indeed serve as distraction. Blind attack type of distraction so the building traps will definitely level up to hide what troop types they have.
Denver seems to be on the right track ;)
I need a distraction whilst I wait for some ROI - oh yes, it's a game not an investment.
You went ROI? Check my alt, there’s recent bookkeeping update comments on my most recent DW post (or one before).
With production levels currently at 76k, 108k, 121k and ~24hrs away from Pharma lab 3... you bet that without 72hrs restriction and 12hrs, I will activate a third account so I can progress to pharma lab 4.
I've just said this above before reading your comment. Good to see we think alike on this!
Thank your for your feedback, FYI the 200 troops limitation will not be integrated on the next release, it's a plan we have to do some kind of limitation in future but we understand that it would not make sense ATM when a lot of people like you invested for more than 200 units.
I encourage you to carefully consider your options before undertaking to radically disappoint folks that didn't approach your game as an investment vehicle. The assessment of your best option is not particularly easy, but what happens tonight will reveal to all playing the game whether your course is to maximize your quick financial return, or is to maximize the long term gain you realize from your work.
The spectrum of options range from just terminating the game and pocketing your Steem, to ensuring that players will continue to join and remain in game. I won't be the only one considering what ensues as informative to my continued interest in DW.
Thanks!
The key will be in finding the middle path. That will require some more updates. Whether we like it or not, this is an environment in which many calculate returns. This is a whole new ball game when it comes to releasing MMO mechanics, even more so after this rather foobar’ed early release experience.
It is novel, and we should expect some fumbles and recoveries as a result. As long as almost all players are able to enjoy continued progress, most will, I hope, be able to chalk up small disappointments to growing pains, and the game will continue to provide a fun option to showcase Steem.
I think you are wrong because you kind of have a problem with the changed rules. This game is still in version 0(!).1.5 and you can not expect unfair rules just because they existed in the first days. They provided information that the rules and the battle system will change. They provided this undefined information a few days after the start.
You can expect many more changes and restrictions to balance the battlefield and if you want to have a solid ROI don't play with your money. (You can take this as a financial advice..)
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I think the game was wrongly introduced and marketed. The pitch was on earning, yet as the game develops it will follow a development closer to that of MMOs than to that from an earning investment pool.
Because the ROI element does not scale. The minnows will not keep dumping their hard earned Steem in the game once the novelty has worn off and they actually experience what “being a minnow in a MMO” actually is. Without those, there won’t be sufficient resource raiding opportunities and the whales will have no reason to keep investing because the ROI does not compute.
The earning part was a great pitch, especially for the “newest shiniest thing” gullible Steem excitement but... it’s stil just a MMO and for the big spenders the rule of the game is to keep spending. Also because the game will need to keep introducing new troops/factors/whatnots to make even whales weak and attackable. Otherwise they stop spending on their empire [because they’re untouchable] and then the whole pyramid collapses and nothing is spend on the pool anymore.
But because the game was introduced with “earn from your empire” people actually do look for ROI.
I disagree. The words used are interpreted differently by folks with different perspectives.
Your statements reveal your own, and ignore others. That was not my interpretation at all, and my own actions in game reflect that. When I saw that people had sunk $T's into gameplay I was astounded. I had to do some reading before it dawned on me that people were treating the game as investment.
The astonishment is wearing off, but what is replacing that emotion is not particularly flattering. I was also a bit startled when I read @edicted recommended that the devs just end the game and pocket their earnings - because they don't have to keep the game going under any legal theory I am aware of - but given my present, new grasp of the situation regarding this game, I almost agree with him.
While it would probably compel them to abandon the accounts they developed the game under, it would certainly serve the community a great benefit, and help devs in the future to better deal with the pecuniary interests of the Steem community.
I was raised on an island in Alaska, and I am often surprised by how unrealistic many people not as innately familiar with the real world conceive things to be. It is informative not only regarding Steem, and this present kerfuffle, but very applicable to politics as well.
I am a bit comforted that when fantastic contortions of reality are overextended, actual reality will intrude and those capable of it will discover sound principles. The old saw 'Hard times makes hard men. Hard men make good times. Good times makes soft men. Soft men make hard times.', is very true.
Too true for some. Not true enough for others.
This was the game’s logo. That is all.
I don’t disagree with @edicted either. And those who “invested”, I wonder why on blockchain they would “invest” in something not backed by a smart contract (or at least an oracle).
Don’t read only my responses here because they are contextual. They may or may not reflect my actual position. Being contextual they may even be opposite to my own position, yet the ability to see, acknowledge, and respond to each side of the table is something which matters. In order to be able to design mechanics which please everyone it is important to also know what exactly causes the anger. One “investor” actually wants to be able bring back more resources when raiding. That’s nothing I can disagree with because as a minnow who ran a ROI maximization experiment, I can but agree that 12hours protection and max 30% resources raided... that is not a fair play field to those who spend on their army. Resource matter for them: both to replace lost soldiers and in this game to also bank due to the pitched “get paid” part.
Contrarily to your thinking, I understand all three sides: minnow, middle class spender, and whale. On Steem the whale right now wants a return, not the highest kill count. They want to... “get paid”.
To me it seems that you long think I belong to the “investor” camp. I’m sorry, there’s no investors in Steem... only token holders. I thought you actually may have recalled previous of my writing about open source, blockchain, and decentralization.
This game is an interesting experiment marrying two different worlds: the often ludicrous spend found in MMO IAP with an environment where a large part of the membership eventually does do math. I’m pretty sure there’s people who have pumped tens, some hundreds of STEEM in because “get paid” who would never have bought even a $5 IAP pack.
Only to regret later they didn’t understand that the game’s early days returns were always going to diluted. Diluted massively. Built on quicksand dilution.
Shutting it down, learning from it and returning in 2-3 months with a more mature launch would be an amazing thing to do. But it would destroy the launch because reputations will suffer from it. Yet, launching on Steem does bring out the oh so gullible Steemian and that’s something which is tempting to unlock for devs.
In the end... we do share many similar views because other than your opening sentence, again, I do not disagree with anything else you said in this comment.
It's been long enough - and I guzzle information greedily and without surcease - that my replies and comments here aren't informed by my recollections of interactions and reading of your posts in the past. Sorry, if that's the case.
Anyway, I do agree with what you are saying here (except that it's only possible to interpret the logo as some kind of promise of profitability). This is an interesting game, and I commend the devs for undertaking to make this necessarily delicate balance. With my alt I made a fast track to 100% ROI and above, just for the novelty of the opportunity. It's not something any other game has made possible, so I did it just to do it.
As battles commence, the fun for me will really begin.
I hope you enjoy the game, and that it lasts long enough for us to both enjoy for the long run.
I bought La Cocina for 2.405. Since I’ve only banked or leveled up. I’m rolling in the profits from that experiment and think I was running at 38% Daily ROI.
12 Hours shield and 25% protected plus 30% is awesome. I should have made more alts for it. :D
Especially since you can technically trigger the shield with your own alt (I recommended a lock out for 72hrs from attacking the same empire, as well as the more standard 8hrs protection).
Now I’m wondering how long until somebody sets up a script which listens to the chain for attacks and then autoqueues attacks 12 hours later.
Automation will harm this game much more than anything we’ve seen from farmers before. It can easily be prevented tho by encrypting the data integrated in custom_json (disclosure: I didn’t check if it is now).
As for gaming, I’ve given my share to this type of games in last two decades. On all possible player levels... no thanks, I’m not spending yet another [enter your preferred vehicle/property] on something just for kills. I think Gabe Leydon (Game of War, Mobile Strike, and his FB games before) is a genius but... no, thanks. I’ve left that world. All these games are math and they mostly rely on whales needing to invest in always new packs, in order to stay untouchable because they already invested that much in their empire. I can dedicate my time, and little crypto, I have to better things.
On Steem the whales can build larger armies, with or without selfvotes to make things “cheaper in Monopoly money”. The march cap is needed, together with a more reasonable 50% raiding, to keep the minnows vested and eventually discover how to play as a [cheap] trap. Otherwise the pyramid/ecosystem eventually collapses. There’s many things DW can integrate to extend the lifetime. Extend before they “reskin” the game, with slightly tweaked narrative and math, and launch it as another game.
In a year or two we will be looking from the sides and admire how all those games will be vying for users and spending on user acquisition. The recursive internet is a beautiful thing to observe. And each time it creates new entrepreneurs and millionaires.
I love it. I wouldn’t want it differently. I wouldn’t want to miss it either.
DW ROI? Was an early days experiment because I expected the dwindling returns, but thanks for making it evergreen DW! But I’m not that vested in returns. “Steem” is much more interested in it than I am, I prefer building.
Well said....”The Drugs and Guns are virtual but, THE MONEY IS REAL.
Hey man I'll take this on the chin, i learned my lesson.....but never again will i support projects like this. YOU are "playing a game".....I am not playing a game on the Steem blockchain.
Dude if you're only in it for ROI, turn to stocks. This is just a game that has premium speculative value. Risk accordingly
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Riiiight......because I'm a "Rookie" on the Steem blockchain and know very little what I'm talking about. If your advice is to "turn to stocks" you have no chance in the crypto world and still dont understand it. (but you think you do!)
Your naivete regarding investment is glaring. You are up presently on your crypto plays. I strongly urge you to really examine history and consider how novel, disruptive financial mechanisms end up.
Seasoned investors in the stock market aren't making horrible mistakes by not jumping on the crypto bandwagon. They don't hold substantial stakes of fiat by mistake.
You are seriously underestimating sophisticated investors, and I recommend you do not. The phrase 'blood in the streets' is not a metaphor. What is happening in Venezuela, Syria, and in similar situations around the world are primarily financial investments. Political rhetoric is a tool investors purchase to create capital gains, and so are terrorists.
Give that some thought.
Stocks suck in comparison to crypto markets. They only go up 10% a year on average. Trading crypto would be a better idea.