Steem Proposal System will be completed on Monday

in blocktrades •  last month

I’m happy to report that we’ve almost completed the work on the Steem Proposal System. As part of the work, we also developed a web page for steemitwallet.com to allow viewing proposals and voting on them.

We’re about a week over our original estimate of up to two months, due to requested changes in the implementation from Steemit Inc, plus the time to add the voting web page (which wasn’t part of our original proposal). I planned to deliver the code today, but we decided to have one more round of testing after a last minute tweak to the voting page, so we’re delaying till Monday.

We met with the Steemit development team on Tuesday of this week and we made a few more minor changes to the blockchain code based on requests from their development team.

From discussions during that meeting, I believe the proposal system will be the only major change in the new release of the blockchain code.

The UI hasn’t visually changed much since my last report, except that the default view is now “votable” which means that it initially displays any proposal that the user can currently vote on (order by vote popularity), but here’s what it looks like:

What’s Next?

Monday we’ll delivered the code to the Steemit development team, who will schedule a time for a hard fork in the near future to enable the proposal system and tag a release in their code repository.

After that, it will be up to witnesses to decide if they will choose to update to the new version of the code. At this time, I’m not aware of any top 20 witnesses that are opposed to the hardfork.

Given that it is Steemit’s standard operating procedure to give node operators a 30 day grace period to update to the code, I expect that the Steem proposal system will likely be live on the mainnet in somewhere between 5-8 weeks from now, but the timing is outside of our control. In the meantime, we’ll continue to operate the testnet for anyone who wants to develop interfaces to the proposal system.

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How exactly will this work? Will the proposals get a certain % of the total funds depending on how many votes they have or will it be more of a minimum votes needed and then they start getting paid?

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There's a daily budget that will get paid out in order to the top proposals. The last such proposal will generally only get partially funded and any lower ranked proposal will not get any funding. For a better understanding of how this works, I recommend reading the original posting about it: https://steemit.com/blocktrades/@blocktrades/proposing-a-worker-proposal-system-for-steem

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How similar does this work compared to Bitshare's worker proposal?

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It's very similar, but there are some differences. Here's the main differences that I can think of off-hand:

  1. Voting is with staked instead of liquid tokens like in BitShares. With tokens only unstakeable over a 3 month period in Steem, this means that a centralized exchange can't reasonably vote with tokens being held on the exchange. This happened once before in BitShares, and it was a bit of a mess, IMO. This means the Steem proposal system is much safer against abuse.

  2. Payouts from proposals are made in a stable coin (SBD) instead of the native token (Steem). Although BitShares also has a stable coin, the proposal system was designed to pay out in the native coin (BTS). This almost inevitably led to issues because of the extreme price volatility: when BitShares went up in value, the payouts were larger than originally intended and the community was unhappy because devs were being overpaid, and when it went down too much, the devs were being paid enough. This issue is mostly worked around nowadays by using a 3rd party escrow agent that pays out in the BitShares stable coins (bitusd and bitcny), but it adds extra overhead to the process.

  3. Bitshares has multiple "types" of proposals (regular workers, burn workers, and refund workers). Instead of defining special types of workers, the Steem proposal system has one type of worker, but unlike a BitShares worker proposal, a Steemproposal can be created by one account and payout to a different account. This allows the Steem proposal system more flexibility than is possible in the BitShares implementation. It can mimic all three types of BitShares proposals, with a simpler implementation and also allows for additional use-cases.

  4. The funding model for the two systems is different. In BitShares, the funding "account" (it's not really an account in BitShares, but you can think of there being a virtual one) was established initially with a large amount of BitShares (about a billion, IIRC) and is funded thereafter via fees charged by the blockchain for performing operations on the blockchain. Steem doesn't charge fees, so the funding account can't be filled this way. But Steem's funding account is an actual account, so it is possible to donate funds to it and this is initially the only method it can be funded. But I expect various proposals for additional ways to fund this account, with some form of inflation being one likely mechanism (either from an existing recipient of inflation or a newly defined one).

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Hey so whats going on with proposal system? can there be front ends to make it look prettier that still u ethe same steem blockchian/ Posts still show up on someones blog right?

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We've delivered the code to Steemit (PR is here: https://github.com/steemit/steem/pull/3272).

Next step is the hardfork release, they're currently polling witnesses to see what if any other small changes will be included with the hardfork release.

Any frontend will be able to make a UI for the proposal system: I hope most will support it.

I can't say I understand what's going on in that picture above, I guess it's a small part of some larger conversation.

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Nevermidn about the picture, and ok cool, hey if you coudl post an update ityd clear a lot fo confusioon
i ghot into an argument about how much the new worker proposal system is going to take, i didnt know you made an update and are going to do an extra 1% inflation?

COuld you PLEASE do a quick update and clear things up and give teh LATEST info on How much inflation and where its coming form, if its not being taken from author rewards anymore, are we going to add inflation now to the inflation tables?

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There's no change to add inflation. There's some code there that allows for inflation to be part of the daily budget, so maybe someone saw this and assumed we had added an inflation source.

Initially, the SPS will be funded by donations (with the biggest one from Steemit), then I expect various proposals for how to fund the SPS through other mechanisms. Proposal voting will decide what those sources will be (in coordination with voting for witnesses, of course).

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Superb! Thanks for the update.

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Hey, @blocktrades.

Going an extra week past a deadline that didn't originally include extra work and more testing is more than fine as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather as smooth and complete a hard fork as possible than one that was late, not quite finished, or rushed to completion. While I'm not an expert, it seems to me like you've all done an excellent job in getting the work done, getting the work right, and having Steemit Inc cooperating/collaborating in this is awesome, too.

Maybe this can open the door to future joint projects beyond the worker proposal.

So, from the looks of things, the individual proposing some kind of work be done will also set the terms of payment and the scope of the project, then the rest of us can decide if we like it or not? I'm not clear on what the minimum vote threshold is to greenlight a job? Is there an expectation that 51% of account holders will vote for it? My guess is, there must be a smaller amount (you'll be lucky if 20% of active users even know about the proposals, let alone vote for them, the way things work around here. :)

Will it be up to the individuals proposing the work to essential market it? Aside from looking on the worker proposal website on a frequent basis, will there be any other notification when new proposals go up, or the ones that reach the minimum vote standard get greenlighted?

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I'm not clear on what the minimum vote threshold is to greenlight a job?

I have not looked closely at the final code yet but I believe from earlier discussions there is a "return" item which sets the line for approval. Anything below that line will not get funding because it will instead go to the return item (returned to funds).

Will it be up to the individuals proposing the work to essential market it?

It may well be. What is not clear is how this will work out in practice (by which I mean community expectations and voting, typical sizes and granularity of proposals, etc.). As far as notifications and such, I do not believe there will be any in the basic steemit.com UI, but there are many other dapps and services available which make take that on.

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Hey, @smooth.

Thanks for your reply.

Okay. I'm afraid I don't know what a return item is, though from what I get from you is, it's what sets the approval line, which means the approval line might be different for each worker proposal? Some things might require more voter weight than others? That would make sense if that's true.

re: not clear

I suppose until it's implemented there's still quite a few unknowns because human behavior needs to take hold first. :) Okay, so as far as notifications go, or getting the word out there, there may or may not be dApps on the platform to incorporate something like that, or some other service spring up. Barring that, people who are interested should be checking the website.

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What smooth said was correct, but just to clarify: by default, there's a certain amount budgeted per day to be spent from the treasury fund. To spend less, you vote up a proposal that just sends part of that day's budget back to the fund. Informally, we call these "refund" workers.

So the voting level of the refund worker sets the threshold needed to for a proposal to get paid: you need to have more votes than a refund worker proposal that would otherwise eat up all the daily budget.

This means there is no fixed percentage of votes your proposal needs to get funded, it just needs to get more votes than competing proposals (including refund workers).

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Hey, @blocktrades.

re: most votes

Okay. Got it. Budget is a certain amount. Until those funds are gone, the proposals with the most upvotes get funded. :)

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Yes, that's right.

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There is one approval line for all proposals. If they are above the line they get funded, below the line they don't. "Return" is a voter-defined approval line. So, in effect, if a proposal gets more votes than "return" it is approved and if it gets fewer votes than "return" it is not approved. The line can change so if stakeholders think non-worthy proposals are making the cut they can vote for "return" raising the threshold.

EDIT: I guess from what blocktrades wrote it is possible to have more than one "return" proposal (each returning only a portion of the budget) so I guess it is possible have what amounts to different vote thresholds for different portions of the budget.

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Yes, that's what I meant.

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with my tiny vote I upload your comment, since the first has no relation to the post. Congratulations to @blocktrades, they have done a wonderful job and I am going to vote as witness

The fund will come out of inflation? how much percentage?

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Initially all funding is via donations. I expect that some of the earliest proposals will be for additional ways to fund the proposal treasury.

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Ah ok, yes, let's hope that because with donations there will not be much money and there already exists @fundition. With inflation as they said in the first post could have something more stable.

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Well, it was enough to put it at the top, @danielvehe, so viva tiny upvotes! :)

The other comment was a bit off topic. Sounds like he's hoping someone will notice him. :)

re: the fund

I'm not sure if that's been totally determined, or if it will even be from the existing inflation. The last I heard, it was still up for debate. Hopefully, you'll get an answer and then both of us will know. :)

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Sure when you start will clear all doubts, the truth is that it is something great for Steem and excited a lot

luv the work here

Those are great news

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I'm in favor. Thanks for being flexible during this.

Great job!

Thank you for the information update.

@blocktrades, Great work team. And Structure Proposal will write new story for Steem and it will will help in implemention in more focused way and effectively carrying out of actions as per the road maps. Keep up team and more success ahead.

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wow, good work you do! And thank you sooooooo much for your upvote! <3 I can not believe it! Many thanks! I'm speechless

Great work, bravo.

You have one excellent team of developers.

I am looking forward to the system to try it and to see how it will evolve. Interesting days ahead :)

Excellent news! This and the SBA as well as the Steem Alliance efforts to organize the community are all going in the right direction.

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hey great team Blocktrades! looking forward to the hf with the #steemdao!

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

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By far my favorite service on steem, please keep @tts alive! I will help with funding if you ever need a boost.

Please do something to ban bots .I don't earn much by writing big article but people with some shit photo earnings a lot

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Quantity doesn't equal quantity - Just an example: https://steemit.com/steemit/@siddharthrout/hello

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lols.

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It's not because u write big article that u should earn more. keep finding the community that will value your content and the blockchain will do is job.

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I'm not expressing an opinion on your idea but the purpose of the Steem Proposal System is to give you a vehicle by which you can submit such a proposal to stakeholders who then may vote to approve it.

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Whhaaaat?! Not on Steemit—no way!

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LOL! I too am shocked! Gosh imagine writing a post and making no money? 🤔

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Not even centralized platforms can fully get rid of bots.

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That's impossible. Bots interact with the chain the same way humans do, there is no way to differentiate. Remember that prior to bid bots there were myriad other bots around no one even knew of.

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What are you talking about. What big post?? Is this the big post you are talking about?

Screenshot 343.png

Begging for votes with a 6000 word spam post.."guy can i get a vote"..

No, you may not... You can get a flag, though....

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I hope people don't read the end of my posts... I cut and past it from his :D

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lol

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Moron

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Ok

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Any facilities for team work? For example an idea I wrote about a capability based facet contract implementation would probably be an interesting proposal for maybe a four or five man team with a varying skillset. Could the proposal system facilitate in making something like that viable? I could probably do it myself in my spare time in 18 to 22 months, but it really isn't something that would be ideal to put a one man team on, apart from the fact that in 20 months an other blockchain might long have beaten us to implementing a similar feature, reducing the value of the feature for STEEM by quite an amount.

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Proposals payout to a receiver account. So if you want to pay a team and you don't want one person to control the funds received from the proposal payout, you can set the receiver to a multi-sig account.

Excellent, that everything goes well for the benefit of all, successful friends of @blocktrades!

Great job!

Really impressed of how quickly you got this done, and we can't wait to see this (hopefully) get accepted and implemented 🔥

awesome work, congrats on all you do. looking forward to seeing this in action!

awesome work to all involved. I'm actually pretty stoked for this.
I'll hold my hype back, but I think this is a great way to encourage better development. Looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.

Thanks for the hard work, we appreciate it! :^)

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Would be cool to have also a short title alongside every proposal to know what you are voting for.

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There is a subject/title plus a link to a steem post where you can fully describe it.

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thx, did not see the title on the screenshot, would be cool to have it in the list too.

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It's there, it's just that the titles of the "example proposals" aren't very clearly titles as it's just test data. The most common title is "this is example".

Very impressive work and delivery! Encouraging on what this could lead to as I hope it can be a great step to motivate further development and value creation for our ecosystem!

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Great news. Thanks for share

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Great work . you guys really doing great

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So this is only to be used by developers and Stinc or the witnesses, right? Or is this going to be something like the new Steem Taskr as well for other jobs?

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It's open for any job, but note that it's not a "match-up" tool, which I guess is what Steem Taskr is.

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I'm not sure what you mean by that, do you mean it's not meant to match workers to jobs? Sorry, I don't mean to be dense. XD

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I mean, the pay comes from a singe fund: it doesn't match up an individual payer to an individual payee. So it's different from something like fiverr.

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OH sorry, got it, thanks.

i somehow missed what are we hard forking, what is the exact change? link, maybe, someone (explanation for noobs if possible)?

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thanks

We are so happy to hear this. I hope this could help a lot and start more wonderful thing around steemit.

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Congrats and thanks to all involved and I am looking forward to seeing how this will be leveraged by devs and the community as a whole.

Do you have any predictions on the first year of usage you are willing to share?

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I don't have any predictions, there's way too many variables.

This post has been included in the latest edition of The Steem News in 10 posts - a compilation of the key news stories on the Steem blockchain.

That is awesome! Glad to see so much awesome progress on this chain! I feel Steem is the most undervalued blockchain out there. Which is okay right now as I accumulate and build my account before it reaches it's true value, haha ;)

Be Cool, Be Real, and Abide!

Congratulations @blocktrades!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

  • Pending payout - Ranked 4 with $ 143,88

Congratulations for your great work...

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@blocktrades You have received a 100% upvote from @botreporter because this post did not use any bidbots and you have not used bidbots in the last 30 days!

Upvoting this comment will help keep this service running.

Well done guys. May this be the beginning of a great year for steem

Good job @blocktrades I love you.

Great job getting in done and keeping to the project schedule.

Can I propose to get some STEEM to buy groceries?

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No, the proposal system only pays in SBD.

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Ah so
Can I propose to get some SBD to buy groceries?

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There is a modest fee per proposal to prevent spam but other than that you can propose whatever you want. That does not mean it will get approved.

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😂😉

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yes, exactly

Excellent news, good job and good job to SteemIt, Inc for facilitating this.

Great first step I really want to see this worker proposal bring out some of the talent using the chain and perhaps talent outside to join us and help build some pretty cool functions we can all enjoy and grow this project to where it should be

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Very good proposal.

Nice Update.
I don't know much about Steem as i am a new user.
but with time and support, i would know the things here.

This is great news indeed.. Congratulations

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Monday is here. has the code been delivered? What possible economic scenarios are we looking at?

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Not yet: they ran into some compile issues when creating the PRs to merge it back into Steemit's repo. I guess it will probably be resolved tomorrow.

I wonder what bundles of joy are in the fine print from Steem Inc...

Good job! We are expecting to launch it in other Steem Dapps soon ;)

Congratulation! Good work.

Interesting.

Hi, Do you if there is a limit in the lenght of a account name? I want to create a new account but it is a little bit long. Do you know the maximum lentght name?
Thank you

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Max Steem account name is 16 characters, IIRC.

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Posted using Partiko iOS

Well done guys, you done a very great job in good timing. Let's hope everything pans our A ok.

Posted using Partiko Android

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So its done by now, right?

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Sorry for the late reply, been a busy "holiday" weekend, unfortunately. Yes, we've delivered it to Steemit, the pull request where you can monitor the current discussion is here: https://github.com/steemit/steem/pull/3272

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Great, thx.
Now i think its time for you to market the DAO. I pinged you in a comment discussing the 50/50 on theycallmedan post.
I know you try to keep neutral and on the sidelines but the loudest members of the community, the curators are pushing hard on the 50/50 split that would paralize steem and take away any chance of the DAO having a great enough impact.
Please introduce your voice to the discussion.

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Great, thx.
Now i think its time for you to market the DAO. I pinged you in a comment discussing the 50/50 on theycallmedan post.
I know you try to keep neutral and on the sidelines but the loudest members of the community, the curators are pushing hard on the 50/50 split that would paralize steem and take away any chance of the DAO having a great enough impact.
Please introduce your voice to the discussion.

Posted using Partiko Android

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I actually agree with the restoration of the 50/50 split (50% to the author and 50% to the curators). I wrote a post about it a long time ago that describes why I thought it was bad: https://steemit.com/steem/@blocktrades/voting-abuse-and-ineffective-curation-a-proposal-for-blockchain-level-change

One change did come out of that post: previously, for the first 30 minutes of voting, even more of the rewards went to the author. This made it super-advantageous to immediately self-vote on all your posts (and get bidbots to do the same) as all the rewards on votes just after the post was published went to the author.

Steemit reduced that period down to 15 minutes (instead of the 5 minutes I suggested) and nullified rewards for that period on a gradually decreasing basis (I had suggested they split the rewards during that period as if they had voted at the same time to discourage immediate voting just to be the "first" to curate the post in order to get more curation rewards).

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So you think a 50/50 split would be a better choice for the Steem platform then the author DAO related cut?

Im sorry, but after looking at the outcome of such a change i can only believe that all this would lead to is curator whales getting richer alongside vote sellers at the disadvantage of the content creators.

How are you going to fund the DAO if you go for 50/50? Will you cut even more from authors? Make it 25% authors 50% curators 25% DAO fund.

I know Ned wont allow that since he isnt driven by increased curation returns. But still... The DAO success depends on the author cut.

Posted using Partiko Android

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We actually had 50/50 split for quite a while and it wasn't bad. In fact, from what I saw, many problems resulted from this supposed minor change that was made at the time.

It's important to keep in mind that all rewards in some sense come from stakeholders who put a value on steem by wanting to hold it. The current broken curation system makes Steem look less attractive to investors, lowering the value of steem, which directly lowers the amount of actual reward that authors receive (the amount distributed through the reward pool is a linear relationship to the market cap of steem).

In other words, I believe that returning back to 50/50 will actually increase the total value of rewards paid to authors, by helping to fix the curation problem that currently stunts steem's value in the market.

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I cant agree with that. If vote selling services couldnt adjust to the 50/50 split i would have no problem with the change.
But im positive they can adjust to it which is why a author cut related to DAO funding is imo a better choice.

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I think it depends on how you look at this, basically, if you make it 50:50, voting bots will have a harder time. 50:50 will probably make people vote on content they think will get higher votes later on. While this, on one side, definitely will lead to people vote on "big posts", if you consider incentives as OCD you might want to vote on very good "underdogs" too.

This is good news, it will go a long way to help us. Thanks for the updates

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