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RE: Universal Basic Income is Communism 2.0

in #basicincome6 years ago

Sorry for not answering this comment before, I do not know why, but I had not seen it.

What are the possible alternatives?

Well, the alternatives, or the ways in which the UBI can be implemented, is precisely establishing one of the two models that I explained in the publication.

To inflation. Not necessarily a basic income must lead to inflation.

In fact, yes, the distribution of money causes inflation, since inflation is not produced by the total amount of money, but by the amount of money circulating, if people increase their purchasing power, then they will buy things, most likely that money goes directed to goods and services of first necessity, and when increasing the demand of goods and services of first necessity, inflation will be generated, unless it increases the level of production of those same goods and services that are demanded by the consumers. For this reason I establish two hypothetical cases (socialism / communism), in which the increase in production is necessary in order to establish a UBI in which inflation does not have an impact.

I for my part im not sure if the basic income should be unconditional. It can be for example, that certain tasks like working X hours for the common good / take care of children / take care of people are expected. In the end experiments should show what is the best way.

Yes, I think a better way to implement it would be to grant the Basic Income only to those who work.

Fore sure if more people would have access to money spent for basic needs like food will increase, but most-likely if the money for basic income is not created through inflation of the money supply, the money spent for luxurious goods will decrease accordingly.

Yes, the problem is that this money in the hands of the great mass of the population, the only thing it will do is lose its value, so that in part the luxury consumption industry will shrink, on which many workers depend, and in turn It would not achieve the positive effect we are looking for.

How to finance a basic income?

Yes, there are many ways to obtain financing, but the truth is that this is the least problem, that is why in the post I propose that it can be implemented either through taxes or through monetary expansion, both will have the same consequence, because the problem is not It is the amount of money, but who has the money and what they spend it on.

The money spent on daily needed products like food, rent will most-likely increase. The price of the products will most likely not much increase, because currently the production capacity is big enough to fulfill most of the needs. The quality of the bought products will most likely increase and therefore the total spent money on this kind of products will increase.

This is the real problem of the matter, you suggest that there are sufficient products and services for all, but I think otherwise, if there really was enough abundance of these products, then it was not necessary to talk about UBI because the prices would be very low and everyone could buy them.

But this is the defining point, if the wealth was as much as many say, then there would be no economic problem to implement the UBI, otherwise there is. I plan that there is no such wealth.


Thank you very much for your comment, I regret responding late, and I hope I have satisfied the doubts about my approach and the problems I describe in the publication.

Regards!

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if there really was enough abundance of these products, then it was not necessary to talk about UBI because the prices would be very low and everyone could buy them.

Thats exactly the point where the current system fails. A big part of the humanity has so little access to money, that it is not even worth to distribute to them the products they need.
While another part of the humanity has so much access to money, that they get tons of product that they don't really need (also through the use of massive advertisement).

Just take as one example the meat / milk product consumption. In former times the eaten amount of meat / milk products was far less. Now the consumption of meat and milk products increased drastically. But meat / milk products need lot more of resources to feed the same amount of people.

Another problem with the current system is that money accumulates regionally. Regionally cities vs country and rich nations vs poor nations.
Because people dont get the resources they need in these regions with not enough access to money, they need to move to regions with enough access to money. But the shortage of money is created artificially through interest / dividend payment / taxes and through allocation of newly generated money in areas that have already tons of money.

To see it more clearly what happened is the following:
In former times there was tons of low wage jobs needed. Now through automation and through global competition the need for this jobs is reduced because of automation or the price of this jobs is reduced through global competition.
Therefore more and more people have relatively less and less access to money.
To make it even worse the percentage of the interest payment and other capital costs like dividend in a given product increased more and more to currently 1/3 of the product price. Which leads to an constant flow from people who have no wealth to people who have wealth. But there is a natural limit to how far this can go. The limit is when enough of these people without wealth, dont have enough to live anymore. In this case in the past always revolutions happened. In our time the revolution is still deferred, because we increased the production capacity drastically and also the oppression capacity. But still if we don't change the system we have no chance then to kill directly or indirectly all the starving people or face an revolution.

Wealth accumulates in some countries and not in others, because in some countries they are productive and others are not. Each national economy represents a different economic area, there are laws that make trade create these regional trade zones, and in them everything is developed, that is, wealth is generated in Europe or the USA and not in Africa, because in one place they are productive and in the other they are not. You can not expect the wealth generated by European or North American citizens to be distributed in Africa, when Africa does not contribute anything to these other economies.

The same happens at the local level, if the wealth is generated only by a percentage of the population, the rest can not expect the wealth to be distributed among all.

In countries like the USA, the minimum wage is more than $ 7 per hour, that is, anyone who works in the US, in my eyes are rich.

A moment ago I went to buy some things at the supermarket, spend approximately 20 dollars, which for most of the population where I live, would be the equivalent of 5 or 6 monthly salaries, but in the USA it would not only be equivalent to 3 hours' salary of work, and also bought the same products at a lower price.

This happens mainly because we only export oil, while in the USA all kinds of products are created, in addition to having a much higher level of industrial specialization, which makes them much more productive and much richer than us, their economy generates wealth for the people that make it up, and the citizens of other countries are not part of it, so we can not demand that the wealth that the Americans generate be redistributed.

Now, it is true that there is an international banking fraud, in which the central banks are part, and that this does a lot of damage to the economy, something that generates a kind of artificial poverty, but in any case, implementing a UBI is not the solution to that problem. If each country takes control of its monetary policy, and makes good administration, then they can create wealth, the problem is that most countries are governed by incompetent and corrupt politicians.

Regards!

Take for example Germany. In Germany it was decided to lower wages and work costs to lower production costs. Now Germany produces so cheap and efficient, that other countries especially in Eu cannot compete anymore. What happens is if they cannot compete, they cannot sell their products, they don't get money, so they cant buy German products. What happened next we gave them credit, so that they can buy our products again. But then after a while they, what a surprise, could not pay back their loans. Now they defaulted on their loans but this would destroy the banks in Germany and harm the rich people that borrowed the money, so the German state decided to bail out with tax money the other Eu countries so that the German banks do not go bankrupt.
So funny, in short the German workers got less salary / work rewards and in the end they had to pay on top of that more taxes to bail out other nations, so that they can afford to buy their products with the taxes they pay on their already reduced salary, so that few rich get more rich?

Also the interest system is funny. Other nations now have to pay tons of interest while Germany pays nearly no interest, so that the German state can borrow money and lend it to other nations, so that they can buy German products again....

In US they export mainly their money and high tech and cheap products that where produced through massively damaging the environment. With inflating the money supply in trillions, they then use that to buy products, especially resources from other nations. On top of that they charge interest for borrowing their out of nothing generated money and then enforce one sided market openings on countries that are not able to pay the interest. On top that they support corrupt elites and dictatorships that exploit their own country. Also they reduce production prices through massively polluting the environment and dump these products on other markets which they enforced through their loans and military to open one sided their market. Not to speak with their military enforced neo colonialism...

Right, I can not agree more with you on everything you describe. However, you are seeing the same thing as me, the problem is the financial mafia and the corporatocracy. The problem of current poverty, and all derivatives, are the consequence of a corrupt financial system, that's why I see the UBI simply as a patch, an adhesive strip, and not as a real solution, since it is necessary to make a surgery to the financial system, so that the economy does not generate all these problems that you describe.

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