Order Givers And Order Followers - Who's Responsible?

in #anarchy7 years ago

c291e-grosse_pointe_blank_617.jpg"Is... Is that that guy's blood?" | Grosse Pointe Blank, Hollywood Pictures 1997

Who is responsible for "the state of things"? Let me explain this as simply as I think is possible...

If someone steals something, and then uses a fence to put it on the market, everyone involved in the transaction is ethically a party to the theft. It isn't as though the fence is ethically clean because they weren't the first one to hold the stolen item, and it isn't as though the fence is not also a thief, for being willing to maintain possession of something that isn't theirs.

Similarly, if you hire someone to kill someone else who has not aggressed against you, or do anything else unethical, everyone involved in that transaction is unethical. The killer wouldn't have incentive without the contract, and the clients would not do the job without the killer as a middleman. This should be simple to understand.

But apparently, nah.

I just had someone argue that those following orders are the only ones guilty for their result. Absurd! Just as absurd as the "just following orders" argument, as that ignores the basis for the action having taken place, which is people willing to do it, in exchange for currency.

Everyone directly involved in a transaction made that transaction happen, and everyone involved is ethically culpable for any trespass because of that. Denial of this fact requires mental gymnastics so intricate in their design, and so destined to fail, as to render paralysis inevitable. Ultimately, that's what these people seem to want, because maybe if they can absolve themselves of guilt, simply by hiring someone, or getting another party to do a thing they won't, they can feel freer to see to it such tasks are accomplished.

But the transaction is clearly the responsibility of everyone involved. It is because of this relatively simple fact that government agents, corporate bureaucrats, and everyone else involved in a chain of decisions, is responsible for their result, and as a result, the voter, the consumer, the politician, the paper pusher, the killer, the thief, the general, the fence, and any other actor in this play is responsible relatively equally for how the production goes down.

Don't absolve anyone.


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So who bears more moral culpability, the order follower or the order giver? According to Mark Passio, it doesn't matter what your opinion is because natural law dictates that the order follower ALWAYS bears more moral culpability. An interesting idea which if right, would mean that the psychos running the world & creating the conditions required for global conflict/war would be less morally culpable than those fighting the war & committing acts of violence, even if those doing the fighting/killing believed they were doing it for the greater good of thier fellow man (based on lies/propaganda created & disseminated by the same psycho rulers)

I disagree with multiple points in that Passio presentation, and will maybe give a full analysis/rebut for one of my first DTube vids.

I'll look forward to it. I'm following you but let me know when/if you publish it in case I miss it. Cheers.

Well written and thanks for posting about this topic. It is frustrating for me too when people try to justify using third parties to commit crimes against others. Oh, well, it isn't mean stealing from you, so it's okay in my mind. Uhm, no. It is not!

I resteemed this for you as well. More people need to understand this problem. It is a serious issue we have as a species. Many people seem to think they can avoid guilt by not committing the crime with their hands. That's simply not the case.

It's not about avoiding guilt it's about moral culpability. If you believed or knew that when judgement day came, those who did the killing would be judged more harshly than those who ordered it, it would make sense to make sure if there was any dirty work to be done that you got someone else to do it.

I don't believe in judgement day, but I understand your point.

Ok but who do you think is more more morally culpable, the order giver or the order follower?

I don't wish to debate the issue. The child trafficking boss deserves death just as much as the collectors.

You don't wish to debate the issue? Why?
I agree with you about the child trafficking boss deserving death as much as the collectors but my point is that it might not matter what you or I think. There might be a universal/natural law that says that the person who carries out the act of killing or trafficking a child is more morally culpable than the person ordering it, no exceptions.

Anyway, thanks for engaging even if it was to say you wouldn't engage.
Take it easy.

I just don't see an end to the debate. Each person will have a different opinion. If anything I would lean the opposite way of you, and I'd suggest the order giver is more culpable. A lot of people commit atrocities because they are given very little choice. Oh, you don't want to shoot that woman? Then you'll be shot. See how that works?

Great Post, I like it :D
I think it's just biologically set up in a way there's always a leader for a group. We evolved to a super organism and now the leader is more complex and in a form of a system. And we follow by obeying a set of rules created by the system.

Please check my new post, I think you will like it!
@paps

Leaders are not tyrants. If I voluntarily follow you and can quit following you at any time without any negative consequences, you are not a ruler. I'm all for quality leadership and governance, but I'm completely against rulers and government.

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