Don't Let Your Respect Create Hierarchy
I've had such an amazing time here at Anarchapulco and will post more when I get home about my experience along with some photos and recaps of my favorite talks. I've been trying to be fully present while here, so I haven't been posting on Steemit. This morning, however, I wanted to share some thoughts I had related to how we tend to celebrate our heroes and turn that gratitude into a form of hierarchy which only holds us back.
For some related thoughts, please see this post from last year: Tribalism: Our Shared Enemy
My your day be filled with peace, love, and voluntary interactions.
This is a great reminder, Luke! It is a trap ingrained in the human psyche. If we want to achieve equality, then we shouldn't consciously put some other people on a pedestal. That doesn't stop us from admiring what others do, but it avoids groupthink and tribalism. Everyone does have the capacity for greatness. I'm happy you had an amazing time there, man!
Thanks Jed! I don't know if "achieving equality" is possible (or even fully desired completely), but I do think equality of opportunity is something we can strive towards. Our differences create value transfers and specialization. I think our differences can and should be celebrated, just not worshipped or idolized.
Hi Luke! Thanks for sharing a little glimpse of a beautiful setting and what sounds like a valuable experience.
Interesting perspective you hold, and a popular one I'm sure. I disagree on some points which will be a way juicier conversation than just nodding along, so here we are:
To say that hierarchy holds us back is disempowering in and of itself.
Hierarchy exists. It's natural - there is biological diversity, there is a food chain, there is survival of the fittest. Hierarchy exists as much as gravity does.
To fight it, blame it, judge it, resist it is to create the conflict. Without that reaction to nature, there is no conflict.
Some people are better at this or that, some people are worse at this or that. Sure, we all have potential and we all have value and in many ways we're the same, but we're not all equal. IMO, this idea that we should pretend like we are all equal keeps humans limited and weak.
A functional organization puts the right person in the right position to perform responsibilities most efficiently and effectively - it acknowledges, accepts, honors, and celebrates our differences! Some people are better suited to be leaders, and some people are better suited to wash dishes - a functional organization puts each one in the right place for them to shine their brightest. Both people are important and add value to the whole, but let's be real about who carries more responsibility and stop pretending like equality is the ultimate measure of freedom!
Hey Sara! Thanks for stopping by and adding value to the conversation.
I find it interesting how so many valuable insights and suggestion for beneficial paths forward from one perspective also have echoes of the exact opposite approach. For example, when I met with @quinneaker and by extension you and @everlove (though, granted, in the case of Quinn it was mostly under inebriated circumstances), I encountered (from my perspective and frame of reference) a celebration of the ego and "god consciousness" in ways that, frankly, reminded me of narcissistic personality disorder. The very solution being suggested to improve the world (celebrating the power of the self) is condemned by others as a disorder.
Having given that example, back to the topic at hand. When I say "We're all the same!" it's clearly a generalized statement with many valid criticisms. Those who have experience various levels of shamanic experiences (which, funny enough, I have not) claim a new understanding of global connectedness and oneness with living things and a separation from the self and the ego (as to many buddhists and those skilled and meditation). Many argue this is a profound experience of healing that all should experience. It's from that perspective that I was thinking about the dangers of creating a separate class of leaders and idolizing them beyond reason.
I recognize the hierarchy in nature, but your argument, to me, seems like an appeal to nature fallacy.
Given what I know about the lifestyle you've chosen to live, I'd imagine this is the key point we disagree on. This is a point we may not be able to easily reconcile between us and yet I know you to be an awesome, amazing, genuine, loving, decent human being who will hopefully not let a disagreement (even potentially a fundamental one like this) come between our relationship and ability to communicate together.
I also agree that we are all different in terms of our skills, uniqueness, and value potential for the world. Some things can only done by specific individuals and those who find that path are truly doing something amazing, worthy of respect. But, in the same way, the masses who are doing other things (such as washing dishes) are also just as needed in terms of a functional whole and, from that sense, just as valuable. If no one washes the dishes and every gets sick and dies due to pestilence, that dish washing job all of a sudden seems really, really important (though it could be done by almost anyone, not just a special individual).
This, I think, clarifies where we may disagree. Leaderships (especially within western cultures) carries more visible responsibility and is therefore more highly celebrated. I get that and it makes sense. What concerns me is when it causes classism ("prejudice against or in favor of people belonging to a particular social class") because of the historical precedents we have for how destructive the hierarchies which can come from these perspectives are. Maybe if the things that cause those hierarchies to become destructive (such as the will to violate the NAP) were absent, then a "natural" hierarchy could be a beautiful thing. Maybe that's a level of enlightenment you all at the garden share which most the rest of humanity does not, which means, for the rest of humanity, it may be more helpful to be wary of hierarchies and mindlessly following and responding to "leaders" who impress us instead of thinking for ourselves. I agree with you there is conflict and struggle when we go against our (I would argue primitive) programming to think in terms of hierarchies. I think that conflict is healthy and once we come to peace with our connectedness to others, we can transcend it and find even more freedom.
That's just my current view, and I may be wrong, but it sure feels right and healthy to me to love everyone as human beings, even as I honor and respect those who are extraordinary.
Essential part of the video. That is one strong input:)...I would only disagree with one sentence at the end...we are not the same...the very opposite is the truth I think:D Anyway straight Resteem...
We are the same (atoms, DNA, organs, homosapien, etc) and we are perfectly and amazingly unique in all of history. We, as individuals, can provide unique value. That is what makes us the same.
I guess there only is a difference in terminology. I agree with everything you said but the outcome:D. The fact that we have different DNA and the fact that the atoms are creating different outputs lead me to conclusion that we are all unique (different), but we share some aspects that are connected to our specie.
I think we were basically the same but it's like that we choose to be different from others. And you're absolutely right to be present and enjoy the moments and then you can steem all you want. Thank you @lukestokes @fingersik
continuously impressing me with you amazingness haha
We are not just the same, we are all parts of the one. What we do to others we do to ourselves - be it good or harm...
Your genuine enthusiasm is infectious. I love all the sound of the tropics coming through in the background too!
https://steemit.com/esteem/@sunsetover/the-greedy-mouse-426233e5ba88
love your comment @fingersik I often say that we should aim to be students instead of fans...great post @Lukestokes "we are all the same" stood out in your post for me .There is as a matter of fact more factors joining us than there are separating us.
Hello @lukestokes sir,
Of course, it is unfortunate that some folks allow regards people have for them to get to their heads. To me, all humans are equal but naturally do not have the same ability or equal chance to success. On Africa, we respect age, success and power; but instead of these virtues to held the continent overcome her numerous socioeconomic and developmental challenges, they had lead to autocratic scenarios and economic doom because the leaders see themselves as gods. And I have also observed these poisons here among some senior Steemians.
I like that fact that this message is coming from you who is one of the most highly revered Steemians. Perhaps those folks that are guilty of this would learn from your message. Thank you for sharing this...
@eurogee of @euronation community & The Host, Show Us Your Witnesses Weekly Contest
hello dear @eurogee
excellent feedback to our mentor @lukestokes, i respect your thought and article for this event, all the best
Thank you my friend
Thank you for your kind reply and continuing to share with us all insights from your experiences there.
The pleasure is mine... Why not. Salutes
@eurogee
You touch on something that's an important part of human consciousness and how we evolve:
We are all unique and brilliantly talented but in our own ways.
What we perhaps are really looking to learn here is how to find balance; how it is OK to truly admire someone for spending 25 years to become a brilliant musician in a way we cannot fathom; but reciprocally they cannot fathom our 25 years' experience growing amazing vegetables.
There is that fine line — and that seems to be what you're driving at, here — between "idolizing" and simply recognizing and admiring someone for what they know and have to teach; what we can learn. Someone who has dedicated their life to improving the world and themselves do deserve our respect and admiration; but not to the point where we abdicate our own accountability and contributions... what the spiritual world I mostly work with calls "idol worship."
And yes, we can totally make the world a better place, and it starts with simply being aware.
Bright Blessings to you!
Re-steeming.
@lukestokes. I think the reason why most of us creates unnecessary hierarchy from heroes we respect is because we have our mindsets so programmed in a way such that we see the heroes as special people with special abilities.we would not able to reach the height they have attain.
But we tend to forget that for heroes to get to where they are respected people,they were once ordinary men.So,nobody becomes a hero by chance or birth.It is by making effort to becoming heroes and the determination to become and do what others fear to do.There is a hero in everyone of us,only if we do not build a wall around our mind that we can not become one.
I love the phrasing of a "wall around our mind." Well said.
That's a big part of the problem of celebrity culture. Others put certain people on pedestals, and then the pedestal people get all this media attention, which makes them even more popular. There are some who are popular for no clear reason at all (Kardashians, anyone?), and others who do a good job at being entertainers, but who aren't doing things other people couldn't do....they just somehow got more attention than the thousands of others doing the same thing.
You can respect their work if you like it, without making them into some god or goddess. Celebrity news takes up so much of the actual news, that we don't get the information on real issues like we should.
It bewilders me to see so many people crying, screaming, and going crazy when a celebrity is nearby. I always thing, "Dude, they're just a human, like you." And, treating people this way only creates huge egos and bad attitudes in the ones being worshiped.
I was married to a guy who worked behind the scenes in the entertainment industry. I've met a decent number of so-called celebrities. I've had them at my house, made coffee for them, talked to them at my kitchen table. Trust me, they are JUST people. If the apocalypse happened, they would be competing for the same resources as you, and unless they have some amazing survival skill that benefits others, their fame will mean nothing.
That doesn't mean I don't have certain entertainers and other public figures like authors and politicians I like and admire. But, I don't go out seeking autographs, I certainly don't cry and act like an idiot when I meet one, and if I get to talk to one, I make sure to ask about something interesting.....and it's definitely not about how awesome they are (I usually ask about their family, favorite childhood memory, hobbies, and other obscure things).
Creating hierarchy makes for an unequal society. I refuse to take part in it. Maybe if other people figure this out, they will stop participating, too, and one day, we can have a truly equitable world.
+1 to all your points.
I did have a first hand experience of being close by someone who is in some ways "put on a pedestal" (some local artist). After taking a step back and observe how others look like fawning at the "famous person" and then knowing him on a personal level. I also thought the same "Dudes, he's a normal guy like you all". And has made me doubly aware of the "fanboy mentality" and tries my best to not have it. People, famous as they are, are still people like me.
It's what we all Steemians stands for anyways. its literally in the word "Decentralization". And it's high time we start treating that as a buzzword and live the essence of its meaning.
Stay Awesome!
Well said.
It's interesting how complicated it can be to tease out what we mean by "unequal" in conversations like this. I fully recognize that striving for equality of outcome is not helpful or practical, but I do think we call benefit when we strive for equality of opportunity while recognizing some have one the genetic lottery and others lost it, due to no fault of their own. We all have capacity for love and acceptance and that's what we are all seeking.
Awesome to see you've had such an incredible time down there...can't wait to get in wednesday for the fork!
A cult of personality is definitely a trap, and I've seen it happen plenty of times. It puts people on an unrealistic pedestal, and it also creates a hierarchical relationship between individuals.
Cheers to you for touching on this topic. You've got my witness vote for sure :)
Thank you for your support. Yeah, the cult of personality is probably how I should have phrased it.
Great message, Luke! We're all earthlings in the end.
Nice ambient for a vlog also, listening to that sound from the jungle gave your talking about humanity, freedom and love a quite emotional and movie-like touch :-)
Safe travels home!
Thanks so much, Marly. I got a great session of body surfing in one morning that was truly amazing. I had such a natural high afterwards.
Awesome! The Ocean's energy is just priceless :-)
Peace man