There Will Always Be a Way to Buy Reputation.
Many love to talk about our broken Reputation system on Steem, but I don't find it that broken. I understand it is imperfect, but I also understand any solution will be imperfect. I understand it can be gamed or even impacted without intent. While some buy votes for Reputation others buy a vote for visibility or receive large votes for no obvious reason. So, I am not upset by our Reputation System. While it might be easy to say Haejin doesn't have the best reputation on the site even though his account holds the highest "score", I find I just don't care. The fact he has the highest score is a reflection of the lack of enforcement from stakeholders who didn't or wouldn't correct his behavior if we thought it was wrong. So, if his reputation score is wrong, we all wear it.
If you think anyone else abused something to gain their Reputation and you didn't act on it, in my opinion, you share the responsibility and so do I.
Besides, reputation is a pretty complicated subject to boil down into an algorithmic number when most of us couldn't agree on what makes a good reputation. I bet if we listed the top ten users on Steem and asked the community to list them in order based on what we thought the Reputation Score should be there would be more disagreement. We likely couldn't agree.
I mean is Bernie a good guy or a bad guy? What about TheRealWolf or Aggroed? The point is that there is no clear way to define what makes a strong reputation. I don't want to debate about these people I don't have an issue with any of them. The point is we wouldn't agree.
Does our Reputation System Mean something?
I would argue that it does, but like real life reputation, it isn't that clear cut.
The score is below 25, it means that person has been flagged. Which to me says, proceed with caution. Not all flags are fair so, I shouldn't judge too harshly without looking, but it does tell me I should take a look.
A reputation of 50-70 means you have been here a while, are likely still building a following and perhaps you used the bidbots or have well-known friends with Stake. None of those things are a deal breaker for me... I'm still going to have to look.
While I am sure we could make some improvements on our Reputation Scoring System, I don't believe any of us who are paying attention think a 2 digit number created by code can actually give us much insight to whether or not we respect someone.
I buy votes to get to $1 otherwise I feel pathetic :)
I understand. It's getting really competitive. Remember the days when the top trending posts have $3k and more!
Wow! You're at 72. Congrats! :)
Hey, whatsup.
So, we get rid of the reputation score. Boom. Done. It's not serving any practical purpose, so it goes. Those of us who feel like we've been working hard for one rather than somehow gaming it—even unintentionally, which I think most people do (they don't even know or think about it impacting their rep mostly)—we can get over it, and we move on with our lives. How's that? :) One last thing to fight about.
As I said though, it is nice to see when someone has a score less than 25, it is a helpful piece of information, but it does not stand alone.
Some things can never be coded in.
The human qualities like reputation, humor, integrity.....ok.... I'm gonna say it...ethics...subjective values do not mix - or can be forced to mix - with pure math.
Yeah, I tend to agree. Not everything can be determined by a written program.
Phew!...I'm glad to hear it.
(don't want to argue with you, when you're in a stroppy mood..lol)
If a concept of integrity or reputation is well-defined enough, I don't see a problem with measuring it quantitatively. Of course, such a definition would be subjective, too, but at least there is a much better chance of it being applied consistently.
Do we even need such a thing? Does anyone pay attention to this?
Posted using Partiko iOS
I mentioned who it can be useful
It was a rhetorical question 😉
Posted using Partiko iOS
I do not pay too much attention to the reputation score other than like you said if it is under 25 I take caution.
Yeah or if I see someone with a really high rep that I don't know... I'll look it up to see what I missed.
I don’t really rely on the reputation for anything really outside of tracking only my progress and ensure it is improving. I see it as not being able to control how others control it but can rely on how I see my own.
Posted using Partiko iOS
In this statement you seem to suggest that acting to correct bad behavior is a desired action to take. What if in doing so, you end up paying with your own reputation?
You and I and the rest of those who have been here a while understand what the reputation score means, but new users do not. New businesses looking to accept Steem as payment do not. Picture a small business that comes onboard to start selling everyday goods right here on Steem. They sell their stuff to 600 minnows and everyone is happy. But a random whale hears that they mostly sell Nike footwear and feeling strongly about the NFL Anthem issue decides to start downvoting them. In short time, they will have negated any "reputation" gained from their previous 600 customers. If they are lucky, another whale would come to their rescue, but as the past has dictated, they have little interest in forgoing their earnings for long periods of time in order to counteract the flags of one whale with many bots. Who would blame them?
The 600 minnows are the ones who would be the most appropriate to come to that business' aid, but would back off after one downvote from a whale succeeded in dropping them down 2 rep points. Either that, or they would continue to defend them an end up being regarded cautiously by everyone for having done what most would feel is admirable. Furthermore, they are only as effective as their stake, and while getting 600 people to agree that they had a good buying experience with a vendor isn't that big of an undertaking, asking those same 600 people to defend that vendor with their "reputation" is a whole different issue. They'd be lucky to get 1%.
How do we come up with a definition of good which we all agree upon? We don't. We allow each user to judge based on their own standards. Amazon, Ebay, silk road and a number of other sites have done this with great success. Why can't we?
Let me ask you this; What problem does the current reputation system solve? Did we need a system which might tell us that someone has been here a while? Maybe. Did we need a system to tell us someone has been flagged? Not if we believe that disagreement with rewards is a valid reason for flagging. Do we need a system to possibly indicate how much money the account has earned? Again, maybe. If so, keep the score, but call it something else because it has nothing to do with reputation, and it's confusing to new users and a hindrance to their free engagement with the blockchain.
Posted using Partiko Android
If a site wants to buy and sell things via reputation they should create a system just as the companies you named did.
If you don't fight something you think is wrong out of fear of loss of gains I find that exactly the same thing as those who will cheat to gain something they shouldn't. If you care about right and wrong you accept the consequences. If you only care about right and wrong if it doesn't impact you... Then you deserve what we have. I broken rep system. One surely shouldn't gain rep points by being a coward or expecting someone else to do the work for you.
:)
I do agree there are use cases that deserve a better repuation system and there are many who get flagged for bad reasons, but again... I've never looked to anyone else to tell how I should feel about someone else.
Great comment with valid points! Thanks!
You're welcome.
Well, you kind of do to a certain extent if you regard someone cautiously based on a rep score given by other users.
Indeed. The current broken reputation system does exactly that. If the choice is to stand up for what you belive is right and lose reputation or do nothing and keep your reputation, you are essentially gaining rep points for being a coward.
I think this os a great idea. Unfortunately, Steem is a single blockchain, and having a different site with an actual rep system would have limited effect when the biggest platforms still use the current system.
All that being said, change happens from conversations. While some regard my gripe with the reputation system as complaining, I see it as an opportunity to improve the user experience and the solvency of the currency. I am not looking for anyone to fix any specific individual's reputation. I just see a system that, in my opinion, has a negative impact on the future of Steem. So I want to do my part to rectify it.
P.S.
I also want to say (as I feel things might be being implied) that my opinion has nothing to do with my history with haejin or anybody else. I stood up for what I believed in in that conflict, and never asked anybody for help with the flags I received for doing it. In any case my lumps from that encounter were far less than others involved on both sides. I am happy with my actions and the subsequent consequences of that interaction.
I was unaware you had a history with Haejin. I also took some massive flagging from him twice and I would do it again tomorrow. :)
I get flagged pretty often not a lot but often. I still do the right thing, that is what should build rep, but being scared to do what is right.
I think we are on the same page. but maybe have different desired outcomes.
Right. I think it's good to discuss the counterpoint to any argument. In fact, for a short time, I thought that was what steem was all about. I guess it still is for many of us, but a lot of newbies will (and have) come to the opposite conclusion.
I appreciate the great conversations you always initiate. I do have faith that eventually, we will make Steem 8 again.
Posted using Partiko Android
Once again I think you hit the nail on the head. Even in the outernet reputation is often bought rather than earnt. I'm slowly getting out of the habit of judging people on their rep score, although I do still enjoy seeing mine progress slowly. My biggest annoyance is still feeling like a high rep means larger SP which equals more influence. I really need to stop doing that! Lol
Interestingly, I noticed that today on Steemit, reputations were coming up out of whack for a few accounts. Some older users were suddenly looking like newcomers again, sitting at 25 when I knew they shouldn't have been. I double checked on partiko and it looks like it was just a steemit glitch.
Posted using Partiko Android
While Rep doesn't tell us a lot, I do think it has some meaning and the reasons it is broken are in part just a reflection of other things that aren't working well. :)
I saw that broken rep also. They fixed it pretty quickly which was nice.
Bought reputation looks the same as earned reputstion. Why not buy it and make it come faster?
Posted using Partiko Android
Yes, why not? Because I group of internet bullies told you that you shouldn't?