Going UP or DOWN?

in #steem5 years ago

Look at how gorgeous this elevator is which services the hotel at which I am staying - a work of art. The entire hotel is filled with my kind of design, hard and clean lines, concrete, industrial. It is an old textile factory built in the 1900s and has been converted. There is supposedly a very nice rooftop pool, but I don't think I will have a chance to enjoy it, in this weather.

For a long time on the platform there has been the call of:

"Do what you want with your stake"

And some people think that this has changed with the shift to having free downvotes as it seems to take away the chance of selfvoting behavior. But, this is actually not the case and as I have explained before, stake has the ability to direct the pool toward content, but it comes with no guarantee that it will stay there as downvotes have always had the ability to redirect the flow back the pool.

It was just that in the past there was a cost to downvoting as it spent voting power, and now at least 2.5 votes are free. The other cost was that those who did swim against the stream and choose to spend their upvoting power on downvoting, made themselves targets for retaliation. We have seen this come up recently, but because those who are doing all of the flagging haven't spent their upvoting ability, countering the targeted retaliation is much easier at a community level, something that wasn't possible before.

So, the do what you want with your stake still applies, it is just that there are more people willing and able to use the redirection mechanism that comes installed with the powering up process:

Curate up, Curate down.

Besides the utopia where all content created adds value to the platform, what we would hope for is that curation activities that push Steem to or pull it away from content concentrates forces on increasing the reward on value adding activities and decreasing the reward on value extracting or harmful activities.

What is great is that both sides of the force will increase the reward that the community believes adds value to the ecosystem by firstly upping the good and downing the bad as they see fit to do with the stake they hold. Due to the dPOS system and the way Steem works, when abusive behavior goes unchecked, the accounts can grow and as they do, they get harder and harder to counter as they have more power and reach. We saw this with Haejin who went unchecked for the last two years.

Once upon a time I left a comment on his post pre-rancho:

At that point, I think he was earning about 10 dollars a post and if I remember correctly was under 10,000 SP. I wonder what would have happened if the EIP had been in effect at that point?

The problem with these circles is that even while they stay narrow and even if they keep their Steem powered up, they are going to get larger and larger and eventually be a threat to the stability of the platform, a sword of Damacles hanging over the blockchain.

I keep an eye on various things and noticed another circle that requires attention. A few days ago @ocdb started using their downvotes on this circle, as did @adm - and this happened:

28 days
image.png

14 days
image.png

7 days
image.png

3 days
image.png

However, the problem is that the accounts that the votes are now going to are more of the same and appear all to be from the same writer as the form is "uncannily" similar. I do not Speak Korean - but perhaps someone who does wants to go through that list of accounts and see if they are legit as they seem spun from other content.

If you want to have a look here is the link and you can click on he names to open the profiles:
http://www.steemreports.com/outgoing-votes-info/?account=sigizzang&days=1

Now, I have no problem with people using their stake to support the accounts they like and their family, but there should be some kind of line where some percentage goes back into the community - the actual community. The reason is that long-term, the community needs to have a wide number of users with significant levels of stake in order to ensure decentralization at a great enough degree. This is why I don't mind Steemit Inc selling their stake as it will hopefully be spread to more people.

When I see this kind of behavior, it isn't the voting value that frustrates me, it is the blatant disregard for the rest of the community as there is such high values on content that apparently, no one even looks at even though it appears somewhere not too far from trending. The other thing is that this same value could be used on content that does add value to the ecosystem and they would still get 50% of their stake returned to them through curation. They could join a healthy curation trail, do no work and still get a high return.

Again, I think everyone should do what they choose with their stake but that also includes using it to increase the value of the community be decreasing the abuse. In time, new platform norms would be found and not only would there be a better distribution, the value of Steem will increase as the platform becomes a place where content creators and investors can live in harmony by enabling each other to be their best by supporting value.

This process of change, while not necessarily comfortable, is a necessary process to adjust behavior into an average that encourages better. Having said that, it has been a pretty damn good two weeks of community action and the longer it continues in this vein, the more rewarding the platform becomes for those who create and add value.

So, are you going UP or DOWN?

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]

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So, are you going UP or DOWN?

Oh, went down for a moment, but was relaunched so high up in the sky that I'm embracing angels right now.

I saw. I am glad that it is happening this way. before when it was just downvote at a cost, anyone who could "repair" was also likely downvoting so had very little stake. Free downvotes offers a few benefits here ;D

The free flags certainly came with some unexpected benefits ;)

Once it is common practice, it probably won't be needed as much, but right now, it definitely is.

However, the problem is that the accounts that the votes are now going to are more of the same and appear all to be from the same writer as the form is "uncannily" similar. I do not Speak Korean - but perhaps someone who does wants to go through that list of accounts and see if they are legit as they seem spun from other content.

Hi, just to make it sure. My content is not spunned and I did not asked for an upvote from that specific account.

Every single article from my account is not spun but a deep research on each issue. Why do you think are all references linked at the bottom of each article?

@donekim is also a highly respected author within the KR community delivering valuable content.

The mentioned account you analyzed is also known in the KR community, because he was significantly powering up during bearish times, but mainly active on his own.

It seems that the account has changed behavior after the downvotes and is now upvoting other accounts, but that is purely based on the decision which content the account wants to support. And the account owner is speaking Korean.

The Korean community has, as the whole Steem community, shrunk to a very small level and seeing the upvoting pattern it seems that the account is interested in cryptonews and there are not many Korean writers left writing quality content about crypto news.

By the way, as you already mentioned that you don’t understand the language, no the writers are not the same and it would be impossible to create such amount of content for a single person on that quality standard.

By the way, thank you for actually coming in here to comment, I should have said it in the comment above.

Jay has been amazing in the Steemhunt community and really does spend a lot of time on his Steemhunt posts and other the other Utopian posts he used to do. I think he's pretty great and loved that you two talked through all the points. I don't trust Haejin for even a second, but Jay is great.

Good enough for me, thanks :)

This is why I have asked for Korean speakers to have a look at it.

I also think that the rewards on the content are questionable considering there is very little engagement on them with most of the comments being automated.

Why do you think are all references linked at the bottom of each article?

When I google translate paragraphs, articles come up to.

It seems that the account has changed behavior after the downvotes and is now upvoting other accounts, but that is purely based on the decision which content the account wants to support. And the account owner is speaking Korean.

One of the accounts curiously started posting again after a 2 month break just after the downvotes began by the looks.

no the writers are not the same and it would be impossible to create such amount of content for a single person on that quality standard.

Not so sure about that. I think a decent writer can produce a hell of a lot of content if they put their mind to it.

You and @donekim I am unsure about, hence asking for a Korean speaker. If all is well, then all is well and I hope that the content that gets supported actually deserves the support.

I also think that the rewards on the content are questionable considering there is very little engagement on them with most of the comments being automated.

It is true that the Koreans have stopped to use the comment function at Steem to interact, as most of the activities are now outsourced at chat rooms for each niche at Kakao. (Similar to Whatsapp) As an example I have about 10 different chatting rooms related directly to Steem with more than 6000messages per day combined in that rooms. It is more a change of behavior than missing interaction.

I am may be totally unknown in the international community, but have contributed as Rep. for Steemmonsters Korea over a year and helped to establish it here, worked as community manager for Steemhunt and launched the movie review site Triplea.reviews together with other KR Steemians and having a weekly offline meeting with them since 6 month to discuss and find ways how to make Steem a better place. I think I am spending quite a lot of my personal time for a project called Steem.

It is your free will what you do with your Steempower and who you downvote including myself, but that kind of accusation (spunned text) is something I can not let stand.

I can’t speak for every account that sigizzang curates, because it is not my account and I don’t know every single account in that curation list.

Wish you a good day!

It is true that the Koreans have stopped to use the comment function at Steem to interact, as most of the activities are now outsourced at chat rooms for each niche at Kakao.

This is interesting. So, how would new Korean users find you if they find you on Steem?

It is your free will what you do with your Steempower and who you downvote including myself, but that kind of accusation (spunned text) is something I can not let stand.

Well, I am glad that you came here to clear it up :)

What you might run into more though is that now people are more likely to pay attention to your/other highly rewarded content on Steem and if they don't find anything much other than taking large rewards, they might use their stake to remove some of those rewards. Perhaps there should be some more interaction on Steem? Perhaps soem of this will be sorted out through the owned communities with SMTs, rather than a common pool of Steem.

Again, thanks for stopping by.

This is interesting. So, how would new Korean users find you if they find you on Steem?

I am quite active on almost all layers of Steem (Including Steem-Engine Tribes for Koreans) and there are indeed a few new Steem accounts joining Steem these days, but they are heavily based on mentored accounts, which means that you have a real person on your side who guides you (on Kakao, the messenger app) how to use Steem and the tribes.

Perhaps there should be some more interaction on Steem?

Yes, definitely, but as you may know you can only win against the competitors, but not your customers(users). It may have to do with the fact that most Koreans did not just start with Steem but heavily invested in it. I am daily talking with about 150 Korean Steemians, and each of them has at least invested 5K USD in Steem and some of them half Million dollars and seeing their invest now vanishing in the dust. I am glad if they are at least active on some chat channels and not leaving Steem in total. Bringing in new investments into Steem is a totally different story, as Steem is now in Korea introduced as it WAS a great Social Media Blockchain (Real story from the Upbit conference 2019). We will have to do a lot to get the attention back from real investors as otherwise, we will play around with our Steem coins that changed into dust.

Perhaps soem of this will be sorted out through the owned communities with SMTs, rather than a common pool of Steem.

SMT has the potential to change a lot including that Steem does not need to be a POB coin but can be the financial mechanism layered for the Steem blockchain and the SMT's can POB their coin. But that is a totally different topic, where we all should work on :)

I am glad if they are at least active on some chat channels and not leaving Steem in total.

While it might be dust, they are earning Steem, not Fiat and many are doing much, much better than others on the platform who are looking long. Investing into anything is risky, but undercutting one's own investment helps no one.

SMT has the potential to change a lot including that Steem does not need to be a POB coin but can be the financial mechanism layered for the Steem blockchain and the SMT's can POB their coin. But that is a totally different topic, where we all should work on :)

Yep, I agree and this is something I have been looking toward for a long time. However, at the moment it is a PoB coin and that means that it needs to be treated as such until which point the code changes.

I should also ask, is there a Korean curation trail of suitable size and quality that could be suggested to sigizzang instead of what is going on?

Be nice if the voting added value to the entire community by supporting those who add value.

The transition from the rooftop pool to the weather to community matters was brutal. I was left hanging :D I am glad you got there safely.

I am one happy soul because now I get to use my free downvotes on someone deserving of them. I am seeing people I haven't seen in a long while on my timeline which is good because it means the community is giving the chain another chance if you asked me. We should all take that chance and run with it.

Yeah, it wasn't a very smooth transition :)

It is good to see people return somewhat and, stakeholders take responsibility.

Crossing fingers that we lift off and head for the moon soon ✨

Posted using Partiko Android

Seems to be getting even more complicated! Guess I need another vacation to come back fresh and think this over as I want to go UP but it seems it is DOWN for me as of late...

Posted using Partiko iOS

I could do with a real vacation, Steem is my holiday most of the time :)
Have some fun around the place and joke with those you know - it makes a difference.

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Change is rarely comfortable which is why most people avoid it like the plague at all costs regardless of whether it might be a beneficial change or not XD

I don't know if I'm going up or down, I'm just going :D

You'd think we would be hard wired to evolve instant of stay stagnant. Perhaps it is a Proof of Brain thing... :D

Love the geometry of that elevator shot!

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