While reading your post, I thought about Excalibur...
Truth should be difficult to extract; it should be given to those who are worthy of its power and in their hands (once they obtain it), Truth will be wielded for good cause... The reason I thought of it, is that Truth is not always used to attempt to slay ignorance, it can be given to someone very knowledgeable, but when given too early, this person might use it against you... if Truth is a sword, then one should strive to be the Rock that waits for the right champion to receive it.
My fault is that I fall in the category of people that want to share Truth, but end up sharing too much... it can be a matter of validation and the need to express all that there is to express - the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me blah, and then I realize you can't undo the the blow... and what's worse I missed and now my sword is in the hands of a potential adversary...
Le' sigh...
So good to read your stuff... i'm an analogy collector, and i'm keeping this one.
Once a very conscious mystic was sitting under a tree and suddenly a man passed by this place. Both of them exchanged eyes. As this man was looking very tired so he asked mystic's permission to take some rest in his hut. Mystic hardly resisted and he granted permission. After 2-3 hours, some soldiers came there and asked the monk" Did you see a man coming in this direction? He has stolen a precious stone. "
Without giving a second thought, Mystic directed the army towards his hut. The thief was killed later.
When this monk died and brought in front of the God. God allocated him the hell. Mystic was terrified at the decision and said " I was a sage and I was always kind ,truthful and honest. Why are you sending me to hell? "
God reminded him this story and said,"It was because of your silly truth, A simple man was killed"
Moral of the story:- "A purposeful lie can land you in heaven"
Actually, I would like this particular vote of mine to be worth 1000 units to catapult this stream of your words into the more visible area of this silly hill.
A very delicate matter, the matter of truth. People like to bang such things on each other's heads. Mostly nothing you think you have to tell someone else is true. Truths are usually just opinions that you can't stand to keep to yourself. The "unvarnished truth" is also popular for this reason. As truth also the resignation disguises itself which humans want to pass on to others. The truth is a much used, exploited thing. It is indeed a mature achievement to be aware of the responsibility of when one can and cannot say what to whom.
Very beautiful symbolism about the search for truth can be found in film and literature, and even "Hunters of the Lost Ark" holds a treasure in store, illustrating to us viewers in a metaphorically aesthetic way how someone perishes if he is not ready to already know the truth. You burn, get rolled over, eaten or fall to deep depths. You can just as well go unprepared into an exam and nothing you will know nor understand the questions that are asked. Or lose the fight when it's a physical test to defeat an enemy - always yourself, of course.
Thus, children are not ready for "God" or "the Divine" as a truth delivered by adults who still lack inner wisdom in every ceremonial and want to teach little people something without ever having known the simultaneous delicacy and bitterness of reality.
Every film that tries to portray the unspeakable, even to project it into our human hearts, shows us anew how the approach to truth actually happens: In a humble posture, quiet, careful and always taking as many steps as you dare.
When we watch a fool and a wise man, we always find out very easily what the appropriate way is. We laugh at the hasty, eager and ambitious and admire the moderate and the balanced. Sometimes, when the author takes it to the extreme, we ourselves are like Pippin and Peregrin, who can't wait for the council meeting of the "Ents" and look too deep into a glass ball, which blacks our eyes and crushes our brains.
Yes, every idiot basically knows what truth feels like, because he knows exactly what the opposite feels like.
Truth is very important but we have to understand the consequences too means, if one truth is not helping and inturn just can give pain, then in my opinion this Transmitting of truth should not be done. We have to understand one common phenomenon, if you do plan to do something and that can effect some other person, then that aspect should not be hidden from that particular person. In this case truth should be shared.
Yes, sometimes some people fall into phase of Excitement and then they without putting mind share all the information with anyone and these kind of stuff is not good because, we don't know which individual will consume that particular information in what way.
Yes, in my opinion, thought process is found in Dimensional form means, our thought process and our analysis towards particular aspect can be different from others, and what we are saying in the form of Truth, next person can face difficulty in consuming the information.
Yes, sometimes people use the Truth or Information as agenda so that they can get the beneficial aspects through particular information. And in my opinion this kind of act is inappropriate because in this world there are many aspects which fall under the Truth, but very less people are ready to consume every truth.
Yes, too much Dumping of truth or information is also not good because in these cases we will going to jump from one aspect to next without understanding none of the aspect. In these kind of situations we are just hurting our thought process because to understand Dump of information we have to put several time in it.
And yes, the most important aspect while saying truth is Way Of Communication. Some people share the truth in a way that, next person feels difficulty in consuming that truth and inturn it can hurt them. So, we have to share our information in a proper way where next person can take it without any weight.
it is the wise who are better able to discern when and with whom it is not appropriate to share what with, and act accordingly.)
Spoken like a wise man himself. I learned this the had way and lost a lot of friends growing up.
Sometimes it is better to be quiet. The ability to discern is one of the biggest traits anyone can pick up. At the same time, truth is the very foundation of that ability. It is one thing trying not to offend, but another when morals are called into question. Let me not dwell too much on the thoughts in my head as I've already edited this twice. Thanks for this @rok-sivante, it really got me thinking
I know I'm a good writer but I keep admiring your kind of writes... This is your third post I'll be reading and I feel the same way when ever I read them...
This is my kind of niche and I hope to grow better at it too...
Now back to the talk, just like you've said, the truth is a sword, and can hurt at times instead of heal.... I totally agree with that saying, because the truth is said to be bitter just like my father use to say, but you mentioned somewhere that it can be twisted so as not to disrespect, dishonor etc. But I feel that it should never be twisted... I use to have this kind of mindset too, but I feel it's not so right, based on the fact that if the real truth is later discovered it may cause more harm than it would, if it has been said beforeward... I think you stated this also that; it shouldn't be told at the wrong time...
That's very true, if the truth is said at the wrong time, it may even cause harm to the person who says it thinking he was trying to help, imagine you telling a giant man who's with a Cutlass cutting trees with an empty stomach that his only daughter just died by an accident... I think that's a very stupid thing to do...
You said it's foolish to tell some certain truth, yes it is if it's at the wrong time, or better still it shouldn't be said at all... The only reason I choose not to tell the truth some certain times is when I realise it may cost a life or even a greater danger for the person that it's been told to...
All good intentions aside, the thrust of the sword of truth at the wrong time may bestow the impact of not the side that cuts frees the mind from the binds of ignorance and falsehoods, but slices deep and dangerously into preexisting wounds when not prepared to receive the blow.
True talk... I really admire your writes... I wish I can meet you face to face, to discuss matters, you're really my kind of person...
Thanks for the post... Ride on we've got your back.
So true....
The ancient Chinese had a notion that everything has its appropriate time and place. This notion was extended to ideas on morality and ethics.
Speaking truth would also be considered to be thus.
Appropriateness was understood to be in the quality of the moment - the sign of a jun-zi (or Virtuous Exemplary Person) was that they would know whether an action (or speech) was appropriate in any moment.
Wise words, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
Interesting take. I’ve always interpreted ‘Youthful Folly’ in the context of reading for myself, although this perspective of how to treat others who are at that stage is very wise indeed...
What I quoted was from the Yao text for the 2nd line. The 2nd line is the Teacher, and the ruler of the hexagram, so it’s about how to deal with naive inexperience.
Consider also how one’s own Inner Critic behaves towards us? Are they harsh (more the 5th line)? Or a bit more compassionate, forgiving, remembering the mistakes of their own childhood?
I’m 4 weeks into writing my own translation of the Yi Jing, and after 20 years of reading and studying it (via several different translations and interpretations), it still continues to blow my mind at how this human-algorithm is both simple and complex all at the same time.
I had the thought this morning that I should write up something of a ‘progress report’.
Please update me on your progress with the translations, and I’ll be following you for sure in hopes of seeing more.
Curious to see your modern take on it. Love what Richard Rudd did with Gene Keys, expanding the body of knowledge into new territory for updated times.
You clearly lay out the distinction between intelligence and wisdom. In telling the truth, or withholding it, the key is honesty with ourselves. Are we meeting our own agenda (personal or ideological) or considering the interests of another. Also, truth is a tricky thing. I've known many "truths" that turned out to be wrong. Need to be careful about arrogance when determining truth.
It really caught my attention. I am trying to interpret everything about this. A little trouble however, I have some very interesting sentences for me. In the end I concluded that this is like how we can deal with the various issues present in our lives. Trust may be the result of righteousness. If we do not have an inner position, all will be considered wrong or right. However, I deny it all.
I just see that something is approaching to the level of truth. Not on the absolute truth. To seek the absolute truth, there is a need for a deep observation of what is being discussed. The key to all this is by reading. I think that by reading will make is one way to shape ourselves to be good, to have K of honesty and the formation of the good elements.
Then it will shape ourselves into a person who does not easily believe in what others say so that our brains will become critical thinkers in response to all that.
Sword (mind in tarot) that cuts & liberates one from the old thinking, or thrusts dangerously into an old wound causing the other great psychological pain. You've done a good job of painting the way in which the sharp instrument of truth must be wielded carefully.
I do hesitate when having a thought that I know better how the truth will hurt or hinder another, (unless a child, or in the above case of the sage and monk and someone is going to lose their life), but with other adults this can be iffy territory.
Suppose I do not share the truth in an effort to protect, and later, the other demands to know why, and then even with explanation, the sword has made its cut?
As a person who perhaps feels more than thinks, I like to approach the tricky truth situations, by wrapping in hypothetical's and also really owning my own thoughts/feelings, this is what I am feeling/thinking, can there be some truth to this? If not ready, they'll likely wave off your thoughts and you can then choose to sit on them until a later or more evolved time.
This could be a tough one. I’ve wondered sometimes how I’d deal with it, if/when I have kids of my own... like, Santa Claus. somehow, I feel it’s gonna be difficult for me to engage in the conventional behaviour of setting my child up to believe in an entire fictional construct, deliberately misleading him because it’s the norm - or risk putting them in the position of being the party-popper by spilling the truth to other kids. Lol. I guess we’ll just have to see how that pans out. (Although, I’d be hoping for an evolved soul that already knows and would call me on the bullshit if I even attempted lying - though that might be delusional). :-)
Once you send them out into the world--especially if they attend public school, the others have a great influence on what they believe. Still, in my experience they come around again.
After all, the schools are the biggest socialization machine.
While reading your post, I thought about Excalibur...
Truth should be difficult to extract; it should be given to those who are worthy of its power and in their hands (once they obtain it), Truth will be wielded for good cause... The reason I thought of it, is that Truth is not always used to attempt to slay ignorance, it can be given to someone very knowledgeable, but when given too early, this person might use it against you... if Truth is a sword, then one should strive to be the Rock that waits for the right champion to receive it.
My fault is that I fall in the category of people that want to share Truth, but end up sharing too much... it can be a matter of validation and the need to express all that there is to express - the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me blah, and then I realize you can't undo the the blow... and what's worse I missed and now my sword is in the hands of a potential adversary...
Le' sigh...
So good to read your stuff... i'm an analogy collector, and i'm keeping this one.
Masterfully-said!
A most excellent expansion, the essence of what I was attempting to communicate, expressed from a different perspective.
🙌💖
aww, thank you! that means a lot!
I wouldn't have this thought without your thought coming prior. 🤗
My granny used to tell me a story about "Truth".
Once a very conscious mystic was sitting under a tree and suddenly a man passed by this place. Both of them exchanged eyes. As this man was looking very tired so he asked mystic's permission to take some rest in his hut. Mystic hardly resisted and he granted permission. After 2-3 hours, some soldiers came there and asked the monk" Did you see a man coming in this direction? He has stolen a precious stone. "
Without giving a second thought, Mystic directed the army towards his hut. The thief was killed later.
When this monk died and brought in front of the God. God allocated him the hell. Mystic was terrified at the decision and said " I was a sage and I was always kind ,truthful and honest. Why are you sending me to hell? "
God reminded him this story and said,"It was because of your silly truth, A simple man was killed"
Moral of the story:- "A purposeful lie can land you in heaven"
Bam.
What an absolutely perfectly-matched comment/story/share.
👌💖
Many thanks for appreciation.
Actually, I would like this particular vote of mine to be worth 1000 units to catapult this stream of your words into the more visible area of this silly hill.
A very delicate matter, the matter of truth. People like to bang such things on each other's heads. Mostly nothing you think you have to tell someone else is true. Truths are usually just opinions that you can't stand to keep to yourself. The "unvarnished truth" is also popular for this reason. As truth also the resignation disguises itself which humans want to pass on to others. The truth is a much used, exploited thing. It is indeed a mature achievement to be aware of the responsibility of when one can and cannot say what to whom.
Very beautiful symbolism about the search for truth can be found in film and literature, and even "Hunters of the Lost Ark" holds a treasure in store, illustrating to us viewers in a metaphorically aesthetic way how someone perishes if he is not ready to already know the truth. You burn, get rolled over, eaten or fall to deep depths. You can just as well go unprepared into an exam and nothing you will know nor understand the questions that are asked. Or lose the fight when it's a physical test to defeat an enemy - always yourself, of course.
Thus, children are not ready for "God" or "the Divine" as a truth delivered by adults who still lack inner wisdom in every ceremonial and want to teach little people something without ever having known the simultaneous delicacy and bitterness of reality.
Every film that tries to portray the unspeakable, even to project it into our human hearts, shows us anew how the approach to truth actually happens: In a humble posture, quiet, careful and always taking as many steps as you dare.
When we watch a fool and a wise man, we always find out very easily what the appropriate way is. We laugh at the hasty, eager and ambitious and admire the moderate and the balanced. Sometimes, when the author takes it to the extreme, we ourselves are like Pippin and Peregrin, who can't wait for the council meeting of the "Ents" and look too deep into a glass ball, which blacks our eyes and crushes our brains.
Yes, every idiot basically knows what truth feels like, because he knows exactly what the opposite feels like.
🙌💓
Truth is very important but we have to understand the consequences too means, if one truth is not helping and inturn just can give pain, then in my opinion this Transmitting of truth should not be done. We have to understand one common phenomenon, if you do plan to do something and that can effect some other person, then that aspect should not be hidden from that particular person. In this case truth should be shared.
Yes, sometimes some people fall into phase of Excitement and then they without putting mind share all the information with anyone and these kind of stuff is not good because, we don't know which individual will consume that particular information in what way.
Yes, in my opinion, thought process is found in Dimensional form means, our thought process and our analysis towards particular aspect can be different from others, and what we are saying in the form of Truth, next person can face difficulty in consuming the information.
Yes, sometimes people use the Truth or Information as agenda so that they can get the beneficial aspects through particular information. And in my opinion this kind of act is inappropriate because in this world there are many aspects which fall under the Truth, but very less people are ready to consume every truth.
Yes, too much Dumping of truth or information is also not good because in these cases we will going to jump from one aspect to next without understanding none of the aspect. In these kind of situations we are just hurting our thought process because to understand Dump of information we have to put several time in it.
And yes, the most important aspect while saying truth is Way Of Communication. Some people share the truth in a way that, next person feels difficulty in consuming that truth and inturn it can hurt them. So, we have to share our information in a proper way where next person can take it without any weight.
Wishing you an great day and stay blessed. 🙂
Spoken like a wise man himself. I learned this the had way and lost a lot of friends growing up.
Sometimes it is better to be quiet. The ability to discern is one of the biggest traits anyone can pick up. At the same time, truth is the very foundation of that ability. It is one thing trying not to offend, but another when morals are called into question. Let me not dwell too much on the thoughts in my head as I've already edited this twice. Thanks for this @rok-sivante, it really got me thinking
🙌
Kudos @rok-sivante...
I know I'm a good writer but I keep admiring your kind of writes... This is your third post I'll be reading and I feel the same way when ever I read them...
This is my kind of niche and I hope to grow better at it too...
Now back to the talk, just like you've said,
the truth is a sword, and can hurt at times instead of heal.... I totally agree with that saying, because the truth is said to be bitter just like my father use to say, but you mentioned somewhere that it can be twisted so as not to disrespect, dishonor etc. But I feel that it should never be twisted... I use to have this kind of mindset too, but I feel it's not so right, based on the fact that if the real truth is later discovered it may cause more harm than it would, if it has been said beforeward... I think you stated this also that; it shouldn't be told at the wrong time...That's very true, if the truth is said at the wrong time, it may even cause harm to the person who says it thinking he was trying to help, imagine you telling a giant man who's with a Cutlass cutting trees with an empty stomach that his only daughter just died by an accident... I think that's a very stupid thing to do...
You said it's foolish to tell some certain truth, yes it is if it's at the wrong time, or better still it shouldn't be said at all... The only reason I choose not to tell the truth some certain times is when I realise it may cost a life or even a greater danger for the person that it's been told to...
True talk... I really admire your writes... I wish I can meet you face to face, to discuss matters, you're really my kind of person...
Thanks for the post... Ride on we've got your back.
So true....
The ancient Chinese had a notion that everything has its appropriate time and place. This notion was extended to ideas on morality and ethics.
Speaking truth would also be considered to be thus.
Appropriateness was understood to be in the quality of the moment - the sign of a jun-zi (or Virtuous Exemplary Person) was that they would know whether an action (or speech) was appropriate in any moment.
Wise words, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
Yep, the I Ching especially was left behind as quite the map of navigating time’s tides...
包蒙吉
Bāo méng jí.
“To be inclusive of the inexperienced [i.e. treat with magnanimity] brings good fortune.”
This from the hexagram 蒙 Méng or “youthful folly [which comes from inexperience or lack of taught knowledge].
Interesting take. I’ve always interpreted ‘Youthful Folly’ in the context of reading for myself, although this perspective of how to treat others who are at that stage is very wise indeed...
What I quoted was from the Yao text for the 2nd line. The 2nd line is the Teacher, and the ruler of the hexagram, so it’s about how to deal with naive inexperience.
Consider also how one’s own Inner Critic behaves towards us? Are they harsh (more the 5th line)? Or a bit more compassionate, forgiving, remembering the mistakes of their own childhood?
OMFGs Yes!
I’m 4 weeks into writing my own translation of the Yi Jing, and after 20 years of reading and studying it (via several different translations and interpretations), it still continues to blow my mind at how this human-algorithm is both simple and complex all at the same time.
I had the thought this morning that I should write up something of a ‘progress report’.
Whoa. Way cool.
Please update me on your progress with the translations, and I’ll be following you for sure in hopes of seeing more.
Curious to see your modern take on it. Love what Richard Rudd did with Gene Keys, expanding the body of knowledge into new territory for updated times.
Much respect to you for such an endeavor... 🙏✊💓
Direct language. No hedging here.
You clearly lay out the distinction between intelligence and wisdom. In telling the truth, or withholding it, the key is honesty with ourselves. Are we meeting our own agenda (personal or ideological) or considering the interests of another. Also, truth is a tricky thing. I've known many "truths" that turned out to be wrong. Need to be careful about arrogance when determining truth.
A thoughtful piece, as usual :)
It really caught my attention. I am trying to interpret everything about this. A little trouble however, I have some very interesting sentences for me. In the end I concluded that this is like how we can deal with the various issues present in our lives. Trust may be the result of righteousness. If we do not have an inner position, all will be considered wrong or right. However, I deny it all.
I just see that something is approaching to the level of truth. Not on the absolute truth. To seek the absolute truth, there is a need for a deep observation of what is being discussed. The key to all this is by reading. I think that by reading will make is one way to shape ourselves to be good, to have K of honesty and the formation of the good elements.
Then it will shape ourselves into a person who does not easily believe in what others say so that our brains will become critical thinkers in response to all that.
Thanks... Mr. @rok-sivante
Sword (mind in tarot) that cuts & liberates one from the old thinking, or thrusts dangerously into an old wound causing the other great psychological pain. You've done a good job of painting the way in which the sharp instrument of truth must be wielded carefully.
I do hesitate when having a thought that I know better how the truth will hurt or hinder another, (unless a child, or in the above case of the sage and monk and someone is going to lose their life), but with other adults this can be iffy territory.
Suppose I do not share the truth in an effort to protect, and later, the other demands to know why, and then even with explanation, the sword has made its cut?
As a person who perhaps feels more than thinks, I like to approach the tricky truth situations, by wrapping in hypothetical's and also really owning my own thoughts/feelings, this is what I am feeling/thinking, can there be some truth to this? If not ready, they'll likely wave off your thoughts and you can then choose to sit on them until a later or more evolved time.
Re: ”unless a child”...
This could be a tough one. I’ve wondered sometimes how I’d deal with it, if/when I have kids of my own... like, Santa Claus. somehow, I feel it’s gonna be difficult for me to engage in the conventional behaviour of setting my child up to believe in an entire fictional construct, deliberately misleading him because it’s the norm - or risk putting them in the position of being the party-popper by spilling the truth to other kids. Lol. I guess we’ll just have to see how that pans out. (Although, I’d be hoping for an evolved soul that already knows and would call me on the bullshit if I even attempted lying - though that might be delusional). :-)
Once you send them out into the world--especially if they attend public school, the others have a great influence on what they believe. Still, in my experience they come around again.
After all, the schools are the biggest socialization machine.