I had to wind myself down from this previous conversation I was engaged in. In my case, it wasn't an abusive troll but a couple of guys wondering aloud if homosexuality is inherited from a past life as a consequence for too much sex.
By the time it was clear that not even a modicum of reason was to break through, I took the tact of just politely ending the conversation. I'm hoping we can all do this for each other when we come across conversations that challenge our patience.
For reference, this was the post. I'm not sharing to flame the guy, but just to share my first face palm moment on Steemit and how I think we can still (sometimes mistakenly) engage and are justified in disengaging.
I probably should not have initiated conversation in the first place, but I spent 7 years in the military having to lie about stupid things like what gender I was approved to like. Since I don't know him or the culture and environment he's from, I didn't want to attack the person, just talk to them and try to get them to see me as more than a consequence of a past life. I figure this is what Steemit is going to excel at, crossing cultural boundaries without fear of censorship
What is reason? You call your belief system reason and his a mistake.
I was one of the people involved in that conversation. You think you are right just because the majority agrees with you. I asked you to please provide evidence of his beliefs being wrong and you completly turned around my question.
How is it that majority is right?
Added: If the majority had been always right you wouldn't be able to be open about your sexuality anytime in time. Do you see what I mean?
At no point did I say I was categorically correct and he false. I tried to converse to sway him to my opinion that our lives are more than just payback for "past lives".
What you wanted was for me to provide evidence for his opinions as though his were fact and it was my job to prove them wrong. That isn't my job. He could no more prove my opinion wrong than I his, and I didn't see you ask whether he could provide proof or evidence against mine.
The next time you feel you know what I think, please come with something better than the fallacy that the majority agrees with me. I never said that and it is clearly a red herring. The conversation became intellectually weak and could no longer support my participation. In part thanks to comments like yours that are less about the discourse and mire about being combative and putting words where none existed.
I "feel" I know what you think because you stated it in your post.
--------quote----
So you're calling homosexuality a defect that comes from the adulterous behavior of the parents? With all due respect, no. Just. no.
There is nothing wrong with gay, just with the people who think it's a negative thing, like you. There may be something wrong with you if you truly believe that a person becomes gay as a punishment or because their parents were sluts. That being said, there's nothing wrong with sluts either.
What is wrong is that your idea assumes that gay is incorrect somehow, without any evidence.
----- end ---------------
That "feels" like saying you were categorically correct and he false, to me.
dude we got to the bottom of what he actually believes and it can summed up by the three points I made at the end of the post in question.
He believes Hollywood is gay, being gay is a punishment for bad sexual behavior, and rape victims are responsible for their own rape in this life because they raped someone in a past life. It took several replies to get it clear, but go ahead and cherry pick my first post. Anyone who blames rape victims for their own rape and thinks gay sex is a punishment is bound for difficult conversations
This is my final post about it here, I don't want to hijack the comments section of this thread.
Don't feed troll, that's all. He'll die quickly. There is no need to downvote him because he sees it as sign of attention to his person.
But another problem appears here - posts with porno, nasty ads and all. For these - downvote as fast as possible, otherwise this shit will be everywhere. I did it already.
""Have any ideas on how to deal with crazy, sociopathic fucktards on steemit?"
This language is abusive and shows you to be no better than the abusers.
You can't talk about treating them with "respect" when you're already casting them in a negative light, like they're wrong by default and you're right.
If you believe their behaviour is inappropriate, ask them to cease or you will press charges. Or simply ignore them. Or debate with them and show them why they're wrong with logic.
"These are women of incredible psychological prowess who utilise the power of the victim in all its perverse and incredible might to amass a horde of allies who’ll put themselves on the line so that she need not. Like their narcissistic counterparts, for better or worse they excel at creating a cult of personality."
"Despite the predatory nature of type P women, the malevolence of their nature is normally rationalised by self-identifying as a victim. The whole filter for their reality is seen through that of an unaccountable victim’s, and it is within this mental construct they self-justify carte blanche ruthlessnes.
Despite the predatory nature of type P women, the malevolence of their nature is normally rationalised by self-identifying as a victim. The whole filter for their reality is seen through that of an unaccountable victim’s, and it is within this mental construct they self-justify carte blanche ruthlessness. The objective predator uses the psychology of prey to justify its predation, a marvellous feat of self-deception. And thus so it is apparent – the truly best deceivers begin with themselves."
I have no idea who this person is and I have no doubt he is is the degenerate you describe him to be but please practice what your preach. In your words.:
Please set a positive example. Here and elsewhere in your life.
Be respectful. Be honorable. Maintain your dignity & integrity. Be a genuinely kind, good person.
If someone steps out of line and needs a reality check, deliver it maturely with compassion and wisdom.
If we ALL commit to such conduct, this simple act will go a long ways in establishing an environment here that is warm, welcoming, safe, supportive, and empowering for all.
You were dropping f bombs about this guy calling him potentially mentally diseased and essentially called him sub-human. Not much compassion.
I get really worried when people who want to be the gate keepers of polite behavior, quality content and rules of conduct sometimes don't apply those rules to themselves.
I know you hold great power here and I have very little but won't the algorithms of voting down and ignoring them work so much better than creating algorithms of censorship? We and particular you have the power to vote everything these people down to nothingness to make their experience unsatisfying.
I truly do appreciate your opinion and did enjoy your take on the matter.
"I get really worried when people who want to be the gate keepers of polite behavior, quality content and rules of conduct sometimes don't apply those rules to themselves."
I agree, I do too. They seem to come from a world where rules dont apply to them(psychopaths)
Great write up Rok. Personally I believe we shouldn't engage these type of people. In my life I have learned to live by the rules that irrational people can't be rationed with, so don't even bother.
This is a big problem with the internet in general. Otherwise normal people sometimes turn into monsters behind the veil of anonymity. One solution would be to have everyone use their real names. This would deter a lot of people but could be misused without some means of confirming identity.
It could also discourage people from talking about certain subjects which they for various reasons do not feel comfortable doing without being anonymous e.g. things which they are ashamed or which they don't want family to know about.
Hard as it is the one thing that really "hurts" trolls is ignoring them. I know there is already a MUTE function - perhaps an IGNORE function like Bitcointalk may prove useful in this sense, particularly if it is apparent to the troll that they are being ignored. As the ignores pile up they might be forced to change their ways.
I always hear this response, but the trolls never seem to go away. I am fairly positive it will take a public dialogue to get rid of the nonsense, as people use the Internet as an excuse to lash out and express the worst things that humanity can come up with. "Ignoring" doesn't work.
I already wrote something about this argument and in a couple of words, trolls are to be ignored completely even if they keep posting and posting. They will get tired of doing it eventually.
I had to wind myself down from this previous conversation I was engaged in. In my case, it wasn't an abusive troll but a couple of guys wondering aloud if homosexuality is inherited from a past life as a consequence for too much sex.
By the time it was clear that not even a modicum of reason was to break through, I took the tact of just politely ending the conversation. I'm hoping we can all do this for each other when we come across conversations that challenge our patience.
For reference, this was the post. I'm not sharing to flame the guy, but just to share my first face palm moment on Steemit and how I think we can still (sometimes mistakenly) engage and are justified in disengaging.
https://steemit.com/homosexuality/@miguel12/the-cause-of-homosexuality
The "discussion" goes down in the comments
Nice that you didn't insult them for not supporting your view! Upvoted. This is what the STEEM whitepaper espoused.
I probably should not have initiated conversation in the first place, but I spent 7 years in the military having to lie about stupid things like what gender I was approved to like. Since I don't know him or the culture and environment he's from, I didn't want to attack the person, just talk to them and try to get them to see me as more than a consequence of a past life. I figure this is what Steemit is going to excel at, crossing cultural boundaries without fear of censorship
What is reason? You call your belief system reason and his a mistake.
I was one of the people involved in that conversation. You think you are right just because the majority agrees with you. I asked you to please provide evidence of his beliefs being wrong and you completly turned around my question.
How is it that majority is right?
Added: If the majority had been always right you wouldn't be able to be open about your sexuality anytime in time. Do you see what I mean?
At no point did I say I was categorically correct and he false. I tried to converse to sway him to my opinion that our lives are more than just payback for "past lives".
What you wanted was for me to provide evidence for his opinions as though his were fact and it was my job to prove them wrong. That isn't my job. He could no more prove my opinion wrong than I his, and I didn't see you ask whether he could provide proof or evidence against mine.
The next time you feel you know what I think, please come with something better than the fallacy that the majority agrees with me. I never said that and it is clearly a red herring. The conversation became intellectually weak and could no longer support my participation. In part thanks to comments like yours that are less about the discourse and mire about being combative and putting words where none existed.
I "feel" I know what you think because you stated it in your post.
--------quote----
So you're calling homosexuality a defect that comes from the adulterous behavior of the parents? With all due respect, no. Just. no.
There is nothing wrong with gay, just with the people who think it's a negative thing, like you. There may be something wrong with you if you truly believe that a person becomes gay as a punishment or because their parents were sluts. That being said, there's nothing wrong with sluts either.
What is wrong is that your idea assumes that gay is incorrect somehow, without any evidence.
----- end ---------------
That "feels" like saying you were categorically correct and he false, to me.
dude we got to the bottom of what he actually believes and it can summed up by the three points I made at the end of the post in question.
He believes Hollywood is gay, being gay is a punishment for bad sexual behavior, and rape victims are responsible for their own rape in this life because they raped someone in a past life. It took several replies to get it clear, but go ahead and cherry pick my first post. Anyone who blames rape victims for their own rape and thinks gay sex is a punishment is bound for difficult conversations
This is my final post about it here, I don't want to hijack the comments section of this thread.
He wasn't offensive
He was just stating his beliefs. It was you who told him there is something wrong with him. So you need to prove that.
he said it was a consequence. not that it was wrong.
And you come and post about your comment there, here, because you think/know the majority will agree with you, and look down on him
He didn't say it was wrong, he said it was consequence, just like you stated
>> a couple of guys wondering aloud if homosexuality is inherited from a past life as a consequence for too much sex.
He also said later in the same way, he doesn't believe begging is wrong, but he believes beggars were greedy and rich in past lives.
Anyways, all the time we are talking about what he said or didn't, we are referring to actions. He talked about actions
On the contrary, you state that there is something wrong with him. That is why I asked you to prove it
Don't feed troll, that's all. He'll die quickly. There is no need to downvote him because he sees it as sign of attention to his person.
But another problem appears here - posts with porno, nasty ads and all. For these - downvote as fast as possible, otherwise this shit will be everywhere. I did it already.
Oh but down voting is fun! This is a good point tho.
This language is abusive and shows you to be no better than the abusers.
You can't talk about treating them with "respect" when you're already casting them in a negative light, like they're wrong by default and you're right.
If you believe their behaviour is inappropriate, ask them to cease or you will press charges. Or simply ignore them. Or debate with them and show them why they're wrong with logic.
That's how problems are solved with civility.
If you notice the details, it was a quoted question.
Thanks for this perspective, @positive . I see the validity of it and can agree with you on it.
"These are women of incredible psychological prowess who utilise the power of the victim in all its perverse and incredible might to amass a horde of allies who’ll put themselves on the line so that she need not. Like their narcissistic counterparts, for better or worse they excel at creating a cult of personality."
What are you quoting?
The Dark Triad Woman $ Introducing The Female Psychopath
https://illimitablemen.com/2014/02/17/lucifers-daughter
https://steemit.com/steemit/@earnest/the-dark-triad-woman-usd-introducing-the-female-psychopath
"Despite the predatory nature of type P women, the malevolence of their nature is normally rationalised by self-identifying as a victim. The whole filter for their reality is seen through that of an unaccountable victim’s, and it is within this mental construct they self-justify carte blanche ruthlessnes.
Despite the predatory nature of type P women, the malevolence of their nature is normally rationalised by self-identifying as a victim. The whole filter for their reality is seen through that of an unaccountable victim’s, and it is within this mental construct they self-justify carte blanche ruthlessness. The objective predator uses the psychology of prey to justify its predation, a marvellous feat of self-deception. And thus so it is apparent – the truly best deceivers begin with themselves."
Tell us how your really feel. :)
I have no idea who this person is and I have no doubt he is is the degenerate you describe him to be but please practice what your preach. In your words.:
You were dropping f bombs about this guy calling him potentially mentally diseased and essentially called him sub-human. Not much compassion.
I get really worried when people who want to be the gate keepers of polite behavior, quality content and rules of conduct sometimes don't apply those rules to themselves.
I know you hold great power here and I have very little but won't the algorithms of voting down and ignoring them work so much better than creating algorithms of censorship? We and particular you have the power to vote everything these people down to nothingness to make their experience unsatisfying.
I truly do appreciate your opinion and did enjoy your take on the matter.
"I get really worried when people who want to be the gate keepers of polite behavior, quality content and rules of conduct sometimes don't apply those rules to themselves."
I agree, I do too. They seem to come from a world where rules dont apply to them(psychopaths)
thanks for this, @coinz. I agree with you on this.
Great write up Rok. Personally I believe we shouldn't engage these type of people. In my life I have learned to live by the rules that irrational people can't be rationed with, so don't even bother.
This is a big problem with the internet in general. Otherwise normal people sometimes turn into monsters behind the veil of anonymity. One solution would be to have everyone use their real names. This would deter a lot of people but could be misused without some means of confirming identity.
It could also discourage people from talking about certain subjects which they for various reasons do not feel comfortable doing without being anonymous e.g. things which they are ashamed or which they don't want family to know about.
Hard as it is the one thing that really "hurts" trolls is ignoring them. I know there is already a MUTE function - perhaps an IGNORE function like Bitcointalk may prove useful in this sense, particularly if it is apparent to the troll that they are being ignored. As the ignores pile up they might be forced to change their ways.
Steemit Trolls are no different from any other troll. The easy way to deal with them is just pretend you don't even notice them and they will go away.
I always hear this response, but the trolls never seem to go away. I am fairly positive it will take a public dialogue to get rid of the nonsense, as people use the Internet as an excuse to lash out and express the worst things that humanity can come up with. "Ignoring" doesn't work.
What about a "troll-bot"?
They would never tire.
oh God, please no. lol :-)
Although, such much provide excellent training in how to respond...
Maybe firing squad of anti-troll bots? But there is danger of friendly fire
:)
Ignore - this is the most effective way
Just ignore those who envy and jealous. If we keep entertaining all these fellas, time will be wasted. Steem on guys!
I already wrote something about this argument and in a couple of words, trolls are to be ignored completely even if they keep posting and posting. They will get tired of doing it eventually.