Drilling down into the math of Universal Basic support.
Since I wrote my initial thoughts on the Universal Basic Support (not income), I have had it buzzing around in my head.
my first post
So I thought I'd drill down to some details and explain, or expand should I say, on my thinking.
The overall big picture.
We all want a peaceful life. (with the odd exception).
If there is massive social inequality - with hardship - there can be no peace.
for example..
If I have had nothing to eat for three days, and I see a freshly baked pie on an open window - I will take it.
There is no moral issue involved. I have been there, more than once.
Any one disagreeing with this statement has never been truly hungry , has never had zero food for four days.
Try it as an experiment if you don;t believe me... and you will soon see how it is no longer becomes a moral issue of theft.
So, taking that as a reality - a truth - it makes logical sense to have no hungry stomachs to encourage a peaceful community.
If my stomach was full, I would not even think about stealing someone else's freshly baked pie.
It would then become a moral issue.
My theory - based on my own pretty extreme situations in my own life, and observations....is that most people are exactly the same.
Using the bell curve 'hunger' spread, you can see that by providing the basics, it would virtually eliminate social problems.
I would hypothesize, that nearly 96% of people would cause no problems , no social distress.
The 4% of any population (dark pink extreme edges on the graph) has it's sociopaths, psychopaths, and extreme narcissism.
This is the reason I to shaded in the 'may cause social distress' portion in the bell curve graph - as the 4%, will lead otherwise peaceful people, into social distress situations.
(this is quite evident if you look at social unrest. Many peace loving sheep with follow the violent sociopath )
The 4% that will always cause social distress? yup, unfortunately - That's why guns,self defense, and a police force matter.
These 4% , these people - will not - can not - change. It is who they are.
(This is a broad view and not individual specific - there will always be exceptions to any broad picture)
I looked on the *Ralphs website * to calculate costs for a nutritious seven days supply that each person in need of food would need to be healthy - and it could easily be costed at around $30 per week, per person.
(NO pre prepared, ready made shitty food here. All fresh good produce, pasta, etc.).
*Ralphs, the Hollywood and LeBrea store, in LA *- (I used to shop there when I lived in Hollywood...ah, nostalgia.)
I have had 2 restaurants, and do know something about cooking good food , and costs.
Food stations for cooking and preparing food for people in need, could easily be provided.
I would say that people who did not need- this universal support, and had jobs would not use this service in fact..
Most people would prefer to eat their meals sat around with their friends and families, rather than queuing in a food preparation station, to cook and eat with 200 strangers...
So that's $140 per month, per person -for a peaceful, healthy, free, positive , and more productive society....
Working people in the USA is around 130 million individuals.
Lets say, for the sake of argument (my laziness) there are 130 million in need of universal basic support.
That's half the population paying $140 a month for a peaceful, happier , 'social distress free' country..
Freedom isn't free, that's just naive.
A society that is in fear of the hungry taking off you, isn't free either.
Social unrest is expensive , and reduces everyone's freedom.
So maybe - just maybe - the peaceful tax is $140 a month.
Imagine if that was nearly all the tax you had to pay, due to reductions in other taxes, insurance costs (property and car insurance for example).
And this also give you the right to take advantage of this system, should you ever need it.
You know you never need go hungry.
Even knowing that fact - that from one week to another you will not go hungry - will improve the psychological health of all those with the current daily stress of having to find food.
It is extremely distressing, demoralizing, and limits your focus to doing anything else in life. You must eat before everything.
This is a post attempting to see the overall big picture ... and how the 'peaceful tax' could be the cheapest (and the most humane and civilized) alternative to a big government, along with big law enforcement, and big welfare structures...
Get people fed, get people positive. Feed a man and leave them to it...People are good at getting on and making the best of things.
None of that is possible if you can't think straight. Because you haven't eaten...
And never give anyone too much...
I completely agree with you.
I can go hungry without stealing, by force of will. But, i can also die by force of will. I would also die long before four days of no food. (I just get to experience the symptoms of low blood sugar, etc... faster)
Feeding people truly isn't a problem.
Here in The USSA we throw out about half of what we grow. (because they are not pretty enough) All we have to do is get it to the people.
However, grocery stores hate this.
There used to be a bakery outlet, i didn't mind day old bread, and preferred the price. But, they were closed down due to grocery stores complaining about loss of sales. Now each delivery driver has one extra stop each day... the dump.
I just saw that KFC now accepts EBT.
That is just sick.
So, adding all of this up we can tell that there is a group of people that do not want to see everyone fed. Both for nefarious reasons and financial reasons.
There has been too many roadblocks put in the way of people trying to feed the homeless to be anything but a well orchestrated plan to keep the lower end down.
We could feed everyone with less money than we pay people to not grow food.
I disagree, but obviously there are exceptions and some people have enormous will power.... The only way you can know it, is to try it.
( I wouldn't recommend it though - it's painful)
I stole lots of times in Europe, when I was roughing it. (but strangely enough, only from big supermarkets and never small family type shops).
I then learned asking for food nicely, was much more productive! lol
But yes, feeding everybody would solve so many problems.
It's not even altruistic - it's selfish - I want a peaceful life.
Yes ......Some people I talk with hold the opinion: If someone is hungry they may steal food...... and although I would not have a problem with someone stealing a bread or so......I always say; why not ask first? Then the people I talk with look at me....... Maybe it is that somehow they learned that it's embarrassing to ask for food or so. I don't know. ( I believe a lot of hunger is hidden also and that's sad)
A lot of those 4% are in the police force, and have no problem, putting people in cages that were hungry and stole food.
I see a lot of instances where, order followers break up people feeding, or housing activities.
Yes, there is an old urban saying, "closed mouths don't get fed."
Everyone can be civilized until they haven't eaten in 3 or 4 days. We live in a backwards and upside down world where we have looked at gov for help and assistance and they respond by turning their heads. They do not pity anyone, quite the opposite attitude, really.
The 50% of people that work hard and produce want to see folks at least trying to help themselves some.
Heirloom seeds, aquaponics, Sonic bloom. If people would at least grow a percentage of what they consume in vegetables, fruits, and herbs, it would lessen the burden on the system.
funnily enough it transcends most careers choices (politicians and lawyers are higher than average. funny that.
Social work is also a favorite...
It's about the ability to control a lot of the time..
Yes, i know.
I also know that i will steal to feed myself.
In america there are lots of food give away places.
But, all the commercial ones have a real problem with understanding what is helpful.
ah, ok, got ya.
I can guaranty you your plan will not work.
A government plan will create more hunger and the costs will increase exponentially.
My question to you is: why do you want to impose your idea by tax on to everybody else?
If you really believe in it, why don't you do it whit your own money?
Aggression das not come, primarily, from unfulfilled physiological needs.
You also forgot greed as a human characteristic.
for this to work it will have to be taken out of centralized government control and be administered at local level - exponential tax increasing is what it will stop. (as opposed to the welfare state- of what we see happens)
You have no idea what you are talking about!
Have you ever actually lived on the streets, and gone hungry for days?
No you haven't - or you could not possibly write such a stupid arrogant sentence.
idiot.
no not an idiot - a total moron.
Greed is the motivator to getting off this system. - Did you actually read anything? - or just pretend intellectualism at the cost of intelligence?
Not an argument !
???????????????
I get that being hungry one point in Europe was very traumatic for you. I don't know where in Europe that was. Nobody is hungry in The Netherlands, for example. There are places in all the bigger citys, run by volunteers, that offers frash cooked food and the possibility to take a shower and wash or even exchange your clothes for better ones. Nobody has to be hungry or dirty. And it works to that regard.
All that did not reduce the violence.
Far from it, it was a fantastic experience - I had no problem and learned a lot about human behavior.
Some people I came across went from being nice to barbaric.
After breathing air, food and water comes next for stability.
To not address the fundamental issues first, means the things like free markets cannot flourish, just like free markets are corrupted and stifled through crony capitalism.
I'm not offering a panacea - I'm offering pragmatic solution to get things moving in the right direction.
Then get together with others with the same believes and do it! Organize a food house for hungry people! You are the only one who can make it work, not the state!
And now i want you to apologize for insulting me!
I have been living an anarchy life for over 20 years, so trying to tell me that just belies the fact you never read my answers.- I already told, I do it nearly daily (giving food to poorer people than me)
Well, we don't always get what we want, do we?😂😂
Is your ego that fragile, or is it just inflated..?
...this is a snow flake free zone, mate.
I disagree that full bellies will quell outlaw behavior. Simply look at inner cities where not only food is given free but housing and other handouts and you will see crime is rampant. You have a higher opinion than I of the average person I am thinking. It seems to me that the more you subsidize others the more entitled they feel to living and owning off of others sweat. And I am sure you can show me outliers who pulled themselves from the depths of poverty using these safety nets, and for every one of them there are probably ten who wallow in it looking for more ways to increase their toys now off the sweat of others. Here in the US we have many areas that are multi generational families living solely off the handouts. You find them in the high crime areas.
And never give anyone too much...
And never give anyone too much...
My idea of food (and clothing where neccasay - is exactly that. You can live like that or pull yourself out of your shit.
the ethos I propose is much harder than what we now. And it will take a genreation to pull up their bootstraps.
You are offering them food. That's it.
Once that is ingrained in 'the way things are' (rather than mutligenerational handout families, like you say)
and nothing more - I think you will the a massive change in attitude.
You have children? - good for you, that's your food they are taking out of your mouth, not the taxpayers - for example....
...it is not a quick fix, but it is a quick reduction in welfare, and a big reduction in big government, and a lowering of taxes.
More importantly (in my opinion) the mentality of achievement will alter.
It will breed optimism, not a negative black hole of welfare hopelessness..
Dude you are 'Red' 100% ;-) I knew it from the very beginning
😂😂 only in your wet commie dreams! lol
on the surface you are trained to hate reds but your mind is very very close to being really red ;-)
..say's the closet free market fan...
there is nothing wrong with free market , I told you that already . In communist Yugoslavia people were allowed to open small business (private) . The only limitation was you were not allowed to own more than one business ...