BIBLE DOCTRINE SURVEY - GOD, Study 2
I pray that the Holy Spirit will reveal all that we are going to do in this studies.
" 1 Cor 2: 10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God
EXISTENCE AND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD
- Possible sources of knowledge about God.
There are three potential sources of knowledge about God
Human reason and intuition
which refers to what man can think up, dream about or assume concerning GodTradition and experience
which refers to what other here said, experienced or concluded about God in the past including church creeds, confessions and traditions.Revelation
which refers to God making Himself known to man in understandable ways
- by his creation
- to individual men
- in His son
- through His Word - the Bible
What we know for certain about God we have learned because He chose to reveal Himself to us through general or natural revelation (man, history, creation) and special revelation (Jesus Christ and the Bible).
In the previous series of studies of Bibliology,
we studied about the general and special revelation.
BUT IS IT REALLY POSSIBLE FOR FINITE MAN TO KNOW INFINITE GOD?
Yes, because
- God chose to reveal Himself to man.
Exodus 3: 3-6 "Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God."
Deuteronomy 29: 29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."
- God made man in His own spiritual image with the ability to relate to Him through mind, will, emoti0ns and personality.
Genesis 1:26-27 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
- God communicated with man in understandable language.
Genesis 2: 15-17 "Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
- God desires man to seek Him and find Him.
Jeremiah 29.13 "And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart."
1 Chronicles 28: 9 “As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever."
- God gave us His Holy Spirit that we might know and understand Him more fully.
1 Corinthian 2: 10-13 "But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[d] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
Source: Bible training for church leadership, Bible Doctrine Survey, Course no. 4, Dr. Dennis J. Mock
All scripture from https://www.biblegateway.com New King James Version (NKJV)
Thank you so much for reading and studying with me, I am praying for and thanking God for everyone who does this studies.
@hope 777
I wonder if all subsequent claim about god is substantiated in a reasonable way based on options 1 through 3. Can any of those lead to falsities about god or are they to be unconditionally trusted? Most other religions use the same methods and arrive to very different results, how do you refute them and maintain you are correct without having to throw those three principles away?
It should be clear that regarding any other fact none of those three are sufficient.
Our intuition has been shown to be unreliable and flawed. We are easily mislead by optical illusions, we are easily confused with probability and a lot of the things that we have found about the physical world turn out to be counter-intuitive (like quantum mechanics). On top of this, reason alone is not sufficient proof either and that's why we resort to evidence. If we relied upon reason alone, we would have thrown the concept of quantum mechanics out the window instead of realizing this is how the world actually works. It was not reasonable to think quantum mechanics was likely, but it indeed turned out to be the case.
Tradition and experience are even less reliable. We have traditionally believed all kinds of wrong things as a species and an argument from tradition is a version of an argument from authority which is indeed a common logical fallacy.
Revelation if unverified is hard to distinguish from a delusion. How do you trust revelation claimed by Christian prophets, pastors or believers while discounting all revelation claimed by Muslims, Hindus and all other religions? How do you know that a mental patient hearing voices is not actually getting a revelation from god instead?
I personally think that if you want to be intellectually honest about studying what is and can be know about a proposed deity, you have to look for more solid evidence than what has been put forward here.
Your post mentions the Bible as a source, but how do you know the Bible is divine, but the Quran is not? It makes very similar claims for very similar reasons, yet my guess would be that you would discount one as false while revering the other as the absolute sacred truth. I see that as a huge intellectual problem and an important contradiction you would have to reconcile before you (or your pastor) can even start to claim any knowledge about a proposed god.
I hope you don't mind me sharing a different opinion here. Since you are doing a study I suppose you care about examining what is possibly true and what is possible false and if that's the case I suppose all reasonable points of view are welcome, right?
Well said sir... Well said...
Thank you for your comment @drdave!
It is painfully clear to me as it is to most non believers that regardless of the argument, no matter how eloquently stated, the believer will without regard for facts, always choose to believe whatever is dictated by the holy texts - to have faith. In fact the religiosity tends to increase in spite of the evidence, or more correctly put, in opposition to it. Unfortunately in the modern world, to willingly give up ones use of logic and reason - to have unmoving faith in spite of overwhelming evidence, will usually have negative consequences. Such as christian anti-abortionists killing doctors who perform abortions, and Muslims who say “Behead those who say Islam is a violent religion”, and last but without question not least, the Catholic Church conditioning future financial support to HIV stricken Africa by demanding a stop to the promotion of the use of condoms. At what point does moral authority become immoral...
I personally think that a lot of people are actually "susceptible" to reason and evidence and even if those conversation rarely lead to people changing their positions on the spot, there are religious people that reason themselves out of religion every day and all nudges in the direction of honest intellectual examination of the evidence help that process. There is a huge number of atheists who started off religions, couldn't answer the type of questions that we are discussing here and with time started facing the music and abandoned their unsubstantiated faith-based beliefs in favor of reason.
As I said Before... Well Said Sir... Well Said...
Thank you! Appreciated :)
I don't mind that you share your opinion, but the study is not about dissecting the truth that is presented in the study. It is a study for believers, "BIBLE TRAINING FOR CHURCH LEADERSHIP"
Each and every time you comment on my posts you will get the same answer from me. I can't answer you in my own wisdom, I can only call on the Word of God.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.”
2 Corinthians 4:3-6
“ 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
2 Corinthians 2:12-15
“10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[d] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.”
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. "
God loves you and I am praying for you @rocking-dave
The fact that the study is intended for church leadership means that the content should be more robust, not full of holes, don't you think? If one is going to preach something and lead people in reverence of it, one should really have a deep understanding of what they are preaching and should be able to demonstrate its correctness, wouldn't you agree?
I think that if someone is preaching and spreading the word about something, they run the risk of spreading lies and delusions if they haven't checked if what they are spreading is correct. Otherwise spreading it would be irresponsible.
For instance, you are giving me quotes from the Bible and referring to it as the word of god, but you haven't shown me in any way that the Bible is indeed the word of god. Having read it, I have concluded that it isn't and that it's way too self-contradictory to be the work of an allpowerful and allknowing creator. Also, I find a lot of its rules and laws to actually be immoral and my guess would be that so would you if you had to make the choice.
Thank you for offering your prayers, but there's really no need. :)
"is it really possible for finite man to know infinite God? Yes because God chose to reveal himself to man" This is interesting, the way I see this these days is that the finate man is an illusion by which God reveals himself to himself (infinite consciousness exploring itself). I feel God is not found in the literature of any religion and what was originally being pointed to in the teachings , which is the natural and peaceful essence of pure being,consciousness, knowing, and is entirely beyond concepts, has been lost in clinging to concepts.
I don't mind that you share your opinion, but the study is not about dissecting the truth that is presented in the study. It is a study for believers, "BIBLE TRAINING FOR CHURCH LEADERSHIP"
Each and every time you comment on my posts you will get the same answer from me. I can't answer you in my own wisdom, I can only call on the Word of God.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.”
2 Corinthians 4:3-6
“ 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
2 Corinthians 2:12-15
“10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[d] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.”
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. "
God loves you and I am praying for you @skyhooks
Thank you.