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RE: Jaguar Force Expands
This is just hilarious! This beautifully reveals what sort of person this is! Well done Otto!
This is just hilarious! This beautifully reveals what sort of person this is! Well done Otto!
ah yes, I am contacting the photographer on his website and send him this link. It is up to him to sue.
As far as I can see the image is sourced correctly. There is a source from where it is taken. There are various sources around the internet. Giving a source is a logical and obvious indication that author of this post is not the creator of the image.
Also there is a watermark with a name or original author that is a clear credit given to the original author of the image.
even if the source is a rip-off? So by your definition, a user can just copy shit as long as it is linked to "something"? Regardless if that "something" is a rip-off? So here it goes, I could steal something, post it on Pinterest, and then link to it? You guys are just soft in the cranium! "Logic" is definitely a misnomer!
You don't make logical sense. These images are found on various pages.
Even if it wasn't and the image was copied from somewhere and then uploaded to some Pinterest, then it is still not plagiarism as the creator of the post DOESN'T CLAIM TO BE AUTHOR OF THAT IMAGE NEITHER BY SAYING SO NOR BY USING POPULAR TAGS SUCH AS ART OR PHOTOGRAPHY (tagging post in curated tags that reward for creating own art, photography, etc).
When Steemian is providing the source of image then he/she is (logically) claiming that the image doesn't belong to him/her.
Otherwise there would be no need to provide the source in the first place. If Steemian doesn't provide the source than it can be considered that this Steemian is pretending to be the author if he/she uses curated tags (or just claims in the post to be author).
So, once again. Writing post without giving sources of used images is not an actual abuse unless the post is using curated tags that reward for creating own images (photography, art, etc) or when there's claim for the authorship of the image.
It is recommend, though, that the source should be provided every time for better quality of the post, regardless of there is claim for authorship or relevant curated tags are being used.
And using more logical fallacies such as this ad hominem, will not make your half baked argument convincing.
I didn't get my academic degree and credentials out of a cereal box. The one who doesn't make sense is you. Regardless what tags are used, a copyright violation is just that. Bad research is just that.
https://www.vagallery.com/copyright.html
But knowing about that might be too steep of a learning curve for your protegee (but I hope it isn't for you).
This here is another image by the photographer that got ripped off - now try to right-click and see what it says:
http://pedrojarque.com/photo/59547/3010
You have just used another logical fallacy.
Having some degree or credentials in some subject or field doesn't make you automatically an expert in other fields. Despite that having getting a degree in some faculty doesn't necessary mean that someone is an expert neither. To be an expert in the field with good credentials, it takes years of producing legitimate research and establishing position in the filed.
Just the fact that you have used that ignorant and generic response "I didn't get my academic degree and credentials out of a cereal box.", says something about your ability to for logical discourse.
This logical fallacy is called "Appeal to Accomplishment".
It can be also "Appeal to Authority" where you claim yourself to be authority in the subject of copyright (because you have expertise/educational degree in something other subject).
Although you have no expertise in this subject, so appealing yo yourself as authority in the subject of authority would then be "Appeal to non-authority).
Another "ad hominem".
You may have got some degree in something but you seem to fail to be educated about the basics of logical discourse, as you have proven over and over again. And this could be have been ad hominem directed at you, if you had not proven otherwise.
The information in "vagallery" link that you have provided only supports the idea of proper sourcing and giving credentials to the author, which was given by jaguar.force, as he gave the source and showed credentials of the artist.
And there you have it, the head cleaner of SteemCleaners telling you clearly, unequivocally, that you are wrong and that we are right.
Have a great day sir.
@gric and @thermoplastic I’ve tagged you in thermo’s post about plagiarism and I guess I need to tag you here too.
What started out as you defending artists has turned into you supporting the same bullying personality you were trying to fight. You are giving those actually trying to take advantage a safe haven while attacking the curation guilds and curators that have supported you both and many others since the beginning.
I understand your goal is to defend artists here and I actually agree with that stance.. but I think somewhere along the way some things got lost and now all we have is miscommunication and confusion mixed in with some insults.
As I said in my other comment, it’s time to end this and I’m willing to help. Do you agree to have a conversation with me on discord?
@llfarms, I'm posting here the same response I just commented in @thermoplastic's post:
You guys should take care of identity theft and plagiarism and not bully some art enthusiast for making a shitty drawing after a shitty photograph. And this "rule" that an artist must reveal all his inspirational references is complete bullshit invented by some overzealous but incompetent nobodies! You are not going to save this platform by being more papist than the Pope about the use of photo references and sources of inspiration! You should rather be worried about these tens of thousands of fake profiles and the automated corruption called "bidbots" because that's what's killing this platform! In 2017 I was able to inspire many artists to join Steemit because of its potential to reward their content. Most of them left by now because the revenues dropped to cents and so did the price of Steem, all this because of the automated abuse of delegation. But some of you are so concerned about kids posting their traced drawings! It's like having a dinner on the sinking Titanic and complaining about the meal! So please, adjust your perspective and don't encourage idiots to damage and destroy the rest of Steemit's art community!
I’m not bullying anyone, as you can see in all of my actions and comments. Please relax a bit and see what I’m saying.
Bidbots, spam, plagiarism and identify theft are a major focus.. you just have to look a bit to see that.
I’m not concerned with “shit tracing”, I just choose not to curate it. I’m not attacking anyone and I’m only just now tagging you as now individuals are bullying and attacking curators who have done nothing but support artists. So, either be fair or be nothing.
If you read my comment, this was me reaching out to help this be solved. The same “nobody’s” who are trying to solve this are the same “nobody’s” who have been curating and rewarding artists.
So, what do you say we stop with the dramatics and instead work on a solution? As that is the point of my comment here, to help find a solution.
Also, if you want to discuss the “sinking titanic” please also note my actions as I am doing more than most to help this place.. and quite frankly don’t actully have time for this drama but felt it had gotten out of hand and I was stepping in to help find a solution.
Call me what you need to, or help me fix it. It’s your choice.
No worries @llfarms, I'm not saying you are bullying someone (didn't even know your account until today) but @jaguar.force is bullying people in the name of @steemcleaners. You'll find enough examples on how this account is annoying artists and art enthusiasts, trying to impose their "rules" and opinions on how artists are supposed to reveal the sources they took inspiration from. And when I see that this same account is using photographs in a way that can be seen as copyright infringement, well, that is just so wrong. Oh wait, they say they disagree with the copyright laws! LMAO!
Now all I ask you is to be more selective about who you support in "cleaning" Steemit. @jaguar.force and their fanboys are definitely not doing no good to Steemit but the very opposite.
So this means you are not willing to meet me in the middle to help solve this? Jaguar is willing, I’m just the mediator.
Solve it how? The wheels fell off the Steemit cart some time ago, and these self-appointed "steemit police" (and there are more than just that one) are like hyenas feeding on corpses just to scrape a few coins. "Anonymous supporters" are being alluded to - just wondering who they are, bankrolling trolls!
Just distance yourself from the trolls. @gric is right when he says many of the real artists we recommended Steemit to have left again or are inactive. But it will make your job of curating easier if there are none left to curate! That it kills your platform is no concern to you?
I’m confused by this comment, as I’m beginning to realize you both have no interest in solving anything. You only want to bash those that support you because how dare they say a traced worked should be credited to the original artist and not passed off as their own. Why? Because it’s practice? Practice is great and many here state they are practicing and will give credit to the original artist. Why? Because individuals are being paid here.. for the work they post.. so it’s a bit different than just practicing at home.
When it’s posted as an original artwork it’s pretty clear why that is.. for rewards.
I’m not one to say “the wheels fell off so why bother”, instead I work each day to fix it. But I think we disagree on who is “scraping the corpses for a few coins.”
You both are now encouraging negativity and bullying to the curators who have done nothing but supported the art community, which is why I’m stepping in. Because it seems people are enjoying the drama so much that they can’t even see the big picture.
Yes clearly I am trying to run artists away so I have nothing left to curate.. as I make so much from curating and all. Curators curate because rewarding the authors who add value here improves the platform overall, not because they get something for it.. well, with a few exceptions.
I reached out to fix it, I’m under the impression you have no interest. Understood.
not bullying curators - I am one myself.
I have no use for this self-appointed steemit police and I am disappointed that there are some curators that would supposedly ask those trolls to do their job for them (at least that's the claim - is it true? I might jump to conclusions ..... ).
@thermoplastic, there are “trolls” on both side.. to show this I’m going to flag them both.. then maybe we can talk? As this is just a mess at this point and I need to go back to putting the wheels back on steem as whole as well as curating... my dm is open.
There, I flagged two troll style comments I’ve seen recently.. the difference is one actully has helped to protect artists even though I don’t agree with the recent actions. The other is one you are supporting and encouraging to hurt a person who has done nothing negative to anyone.
So, what’s the goal here? Do you want to encourage creativity and a positive platform? Or do you want to encourage trolling? Like I said, I’m willing to help.. I’m not on a side, my DM is open.
The last thing I want to encourage is trolling, in fact, I've been battling trolls here and prior to this on Facebook. On FB I have 3 accounts, and 2 of them have been blocked from time to time because of troll reports. The same shenanigans, but a different platform. The system sucks when people can be intimidated simply by typing in "sources" and preceding it with a "!" - and this guy is using this extensively in order to intimidate artists. Just to demonstrate this, I did it myself to this post (but that is not my style to do, but an exception). But I had a reason. Maybe scroll up and see the reaction.
There certainly is a difference in his actions (compared to you), and you just not rewarding a post if it is not up to snuff. That I fully support. I would also fully support if a user is given warnings in a respectful manner if they did something wrong, and not hit with a baseball bat right away! This Jaguar is seemingly enjoying it way too much being belligerent. I applaud your effort to mediate, but a Jaguar does not change its spots. It is and will forever be what he brags to be.
We are about to run out of patience with you sir, you supposedly try to get real artists here, but now you support and condone 5th class shit, you seem to be obtuse as a rock. Please stop.
Flagged for trolling and spreading negativity
I would like to propose a resolution that both parties could agree. I ve been watching the events in the past week and like @thermoplastic i am shocked by the practises of @jaguar-force. On the other side i agree also with @llfarms that this situation is getting out of control and probably will give a last blow at the community. Communities are based on trust, if you take that away everything collapses. The sooner we will leave this thing behind and forget it the better for all of us.
So my proposal is the jaguar-force account to become inactive, never post again never comment nothing at all. We dont want sth like that for all the different reasons that the previous artists and me stated in various comments. On the other side, to ensure that the rules are applied and in every obscure case they think violates the rules, curators can post a friendly comment suggesting the problem with the post and the artist gets no vote. I think that every artist who cheats will understand that he is caught cheating and if he wants to get voted again he will try to go by the rules. I think is simple. If curators feel that there is an need for someone to investigate, mean that curators do not have a lot of time to play their role or there is a lot of work. Take more curators.
I dont know if this could work, it sounds simple in my mind but i dont know if there are mechanics that could prevent this from happening. We are not overreacting and make a drama out of this situation because we are oversensitive as artists, we are just trying to end this thing on the spot, and not leave it lingering with compromises. Apart from the bulling and illegal behaviour the existence of this account it is a symbolic problem. It makes people edgy, suspicious spreads negativity to the community. I dont like to have the feeling that i am inspected each time i make a post. It ruins the whole experience i liked steemit at the first place because there was not negativity,only positive encouragement.
In conclusion, i would like to see a solution like that applied and i am hoping that you all find it fitting.
I responded above (to Otto). I don’t think the solution is to tell an account they can never post again, as then we are doing exactly what you are fighting, policing. You can simply mute the account and then they are invisible to you.
If the only solution is certain accounts can’t post anymore then I would need to add a few more account names to the list 🙂 I think there is a better way.
I agree that it needs to come to a resolution though and I hope that many will agree as well. This place is pretty special and it’s up to us to ensure it stays that way.
LMAO!!! You are delusional sir.