Why wasn't Captain America able to lift Thor's Hammer in the Avengers movie even though he did it in the comics?
When it comes to the comic books, the answer to this question seems to hinge on a few more things than it does in the Marvel Cinematic Universe—at least so far. In the latter, the stated reason is that only those who are worthy to lift the hammer will be able to do it.
However, worthiness, in the comic books, anyway, is up to interpretation, especially in the What If Marvel books, which seem to be able to bend the rules at will. Those books aside, there are probably other reasons why others, and Captain America in particular, are able to wield Thor's weapon.
CONTEXT
In Avengers: Age of Ultron, Steve Rogers actually moves Mjolnir ever so slightly during an after party contest that sees every Avenger trying to lift it except for Black Widow, who says she doesn't need to know if she can or can't. Then, Ultron shows up and ruins the mood.
However, later in the movie, after Vision is created, has a brief skirmish with the heroes, gathers itself and apologizes, the Avengers aren't all that sure if they can trust a new life form that is at least part Ultron (and also part Tony Stark, another character falling out of trust).
To settle the matter, though, Vison suddenly picks up Mjolnir, while saying there's not much it can say or do to convince them it's on their side, and hands it to Thor. That opens up a debate as to whether or not an artificial intelligence/machine can actually be worthy (since if left on the floor of an elevator, presumably, the hammer would move as the elevator went up or down).
With that in mind, here is why I think comic book Captain America has lifted the hammer (as well as some others, and this will also apply in some cases to Vision in the movie), while MCU Cap did not.
EFFECT/NEED
Worthiness isn't the only reason. That appears to be a starting point, but in the case of Captain America, with one story, Thor was down and Cap used the Mjolnir to bash away some bad guys before throwing the hammer back to Thor. In another, he used it to rally the Avengers against a particularly fearsome foe.
In Age of Ultron, Rogers may well have been worthy (which is why he even budged it at all), but it wasn't needful for him to do anything more.
In the case of Vision, it wanted a rather quick and effective way to end the debate over its intentions, which apparently Mjolnir, or the spell guarding Mjolnir, was able to sense and thus provide a way for the detractors to put their differences aside for the moment and go after Ultron.
CONVENIENCE
in the comics, it seems more of a contrivance than anything else. You've done so many stories, what else is there to do? It tends to lend itself to shock value when someone other than Thor is able to wield the hammer. It provides a pretty cool moment, one that hopefully is worth more than the moment itself, but can provide some kind of reverberation throughout the Marvel Universe. I'm not sure if that's been the case or not, other than fans thinking it's cool that Cap did it here, or someone else did it there.
This seems to be the way most of the aforementioned What If issues went. I don't think we can consider any of them as mainstream cannon, however, and in reality, unless the story takes place somewhere in the multiverse, they probably shouldn't even count, since not even within the context of reality was it possible, but instead, a pure what if scenario.
WEAK STORYTELLING
I'm just going to throw that out there, for the cynics, and because, let's face it, it's probably true. It happens once, it could certainly happen again, but over and over and over gets a little old fast. At the very least, Mjolnir's special weapon status suffers. Besides, does the hammer have to be the answer to everything? Is there no other way for people to get out of the predicament they were in? It could be (and this is pure speculation and should be taken with the smallest grains of salt), that the writers wrote themselves into a corner and giving Mjolnir to Captain America for at least a few moments was considered an acceptable way out. Because, well, he's Captain America.
WILL IT HAPPEN IN THE MCU?
Since we now no Mjolnir cannot only be held by someone who you would think would not be considered worthy, as well as be utterly destroyed, thanks to Thor: Ragnarok, I guess we won't get to see if Captain America can wield Mjolnir. But who knows, maybe he will show his worthiness, and the need, by picking up Stormbreaker. And maybe Cap will have the presence of mind to aim for the head, too.
Image source—Pixabay
Hi glenalbrethsen,
Visit curiesteem.com or join the Curie Discord community to learn more.
Well, thanks everyone at @curie.
I really do appreciate all you do for all of us, and I'm grateful to still be here, to a great degree, because of what you've specifically done for me.
Onward and upward.
Very well written & interesting answer. Love it.
Love yours and themanwithnoname's comments too.
Have a nice day.
Well, thank you, @mobi72. I'm glad you liked it. I guess a little bit of triviality on a Friday night is okay every once in a while, right?
I think @themanwithnoname and I tend to get into pretty good discussions, even when the fate of the world (or STEEM) isn't hanging in the balance. :)
I was just on musing discord, this answer is also a burning question there.
I would love to see more.
A burning question on musing discord? Okay, well apparently someone has some time on their hands. :)
I wouldn't mind seeing more entertainment related questions myself. Maybe that means you or I need to ask them? :) Is it against the rules to ask and then go make a separate answer yourself?
Yes, it's a good thing that people like to appreciate good things/materials. Some of the good musing fellows were appreciating this interesting answer.
Let me think, may be I come up with some questions ... It'd be great if you answer them.
Have a nice & lovely day.
Hmmm interesting take on it. I forgot all about it until you brought it up. Haha. He doesn't need to use Mjolnir anyway because Captain America has his own shield. :)
Too bad it's not going to be Chris Evans anymore. :(
Hey, @artgirl.
Very true. Captain America doesn't really need Thor's hammer. It was just a matter of answering a question about why the comic book version of Cap has picked it up but not movie Cap. Really, it probably boils down to what the writer thought would be the most impactful in each story, but that doesn't mean it was absolutely necessary. Anyway, fun to talk about, but that's about it. :)
re: Chris Evans
It will be interesting to see what happens with Captain America in the next Avengers movie. Odds are Evans' Steve Rogers won't be coming back for any more movies, but that doesn't mean someone won't be stepping in to be Captain America.
Howdy sir Glen! how's it going? sorry I don't know this subject of the post very well but I wanted to stop by and see if you'd posted anything. I'm not on my feed very often so I miss everything I'm following it seems and miss alot of Ginabot too! lol.
congratulations on the curie!
Thanks, @janton.
I guess you must be answering all your comments, rather than looking at anything else? Good to have all of those to reply to I suppose. It's okay that you don't know much about comic books. Means you were probably doing something more important during your youth. :)
howdy again sir Glen! Well I actually liked them but for some reason we never saw any but then we grew up out in the country so there were no other kids to play with and by the time I was in the 5th grade we were working 12 hour days so my childwood was cut short.
Actually with other things I've been working on I just try to hit the comments off and on throughout the day and then catch up at night but they have dropped way down in number. but yes with less time I hit the comments and don't get to my feed.
I had some friends growing up, but I also spent quite a bit of time by myself, so comic books helped me through that stage. There's only so much playing with sisters a guy can do. :)
I figured you must have been working or something, especially living out in the country or on a farm. Parents have a way of putting their children to work out there.
Okay, so it sounds like you're still working on things around the house. Any idea when you might get back into the money?
sir Glen! yeah you sound like a forlone loner! lol. just teasing, I'm not sure what that would even look like, probably like me. My dad took advantage of the cheap labor to the max! We felt like slaves but we did get paid, it was just a low wage.
I don't know about the money in the League, I've just been not thinking about it in fact, I didn' think about it until late Saturday night, I forgot about it all week! I suppose I should but I figured it would be good to let others in there to take the top place like delishtreats did or you can if you wanted to, that should be easy for you.
I like not having to try to do big CL and PS numbers because I'm so weak on them but if I decide to pursue it again I'll take the money because it's a pain for me to try and write alot and contact alot of people. lol. I know that it's supposed to be about that so that sounds funny for it to be a pain!
What about you?
re: what about you?
I think you should take the money, too, since you're consistently at the top, anyway, even with the lower scores.
Or were you asking about me going after the top spot? Right now, it seems like it would be easier to do, if you're not planning to ramp back up, but in my case, there's probably others, including yourself, who might want/need it more as incentive, as earnings, or whatever else it might help with. That's not to say I don't want or even need it—but there comes a point where you've got your fingers in so many pies that it becomes impossible to wield them all, so you've got to pick and choose which ones.
Since late March until late last month, I was trying to choose the league over virtually anything else, regardless of what was happening, and it worked out for most of it. But things keep changing with new dApps, and the price of STEEM going down and RCs and more and more people getting discouraged, and so in order to really make the engagement work, you've got to do a lot more because not so many people are engaging back—so instead of being able to carry on a three or four reply conversation, you're hunting around for the first level comment to leave, and then fortunate if you can get down to the next. That's my opinion—doesn't make it true. I just know it was easier to do earlier in the year than it's been in the latter part of the year.
So, I've been trying to figure out strategies where I can keep going, still participate, still do well with contest earnings, but not spend so much time in it because it ultimately hasn't helped me build a network for my posts. I've still not figured it out, but I don't know if there is a way to permanently solve how to go about it here with one set of tactics, not while it keeps changing.
I think a lot of it gets solved the moment the bull run starts, but who knows when that is, how far it will go before it starts to erode and come back down, and how many people will actually be involved or jump back in when it does.
sir Glen! hey did you just hit 61? lol. I mean, you are definitely doing something right! I find it so hard to move up in rep, it's painfully slow but the people moving up fast are consistently getting curied or have big paydays from whatever sources or bots. And it seems that if you have bigger paydays no matter the source then you move right up.
I'm not complaining, just trying to figure things out and it feels like slow motion compared to most so yeah I guess I'm complaining about the slowness. lol. But it's all fine. Yeah the League gets your name out there but it doesn't bring people to your blog and boost your earnings so you have to wonder if it's worth it. How are you doing with Musing?
I haven't had time to check it out. I'd be good at asking questions but not answering them! You'd be great at both. Contests are probably the way to go.
The price of Steem went down to 43 cents or something? geez. What if it doesn't come back up? Everyone says it has to but based on what I don't know.
Oh, it is alot harder to find people who can talk alot now with the rc thing, takes tons more work!
Yeah, I hit 61 sometime yesterday, I guess.
Well, I don't know what I'm doing—and I know in some people's eyes, I should have a higher rep, so they're not going to think I'm doing it right, but without self-upvoting, bid botting, or constantly throwing my work to the Discord folks or finding other ways to schmooze, I'm not at 61. I have received a curie on average once a month, but now they hardly move the meter compared to what they used because of the STEEM price. Mostly what's moving the meter right now for me is musing because of the number of answers I've made and the amount of the upvote.
Which answers part of the question of how things are going. The other part is, there's not a whole lot of ways to interact here, though I suppose I could figure something out, but musing has its own folks reading answers and assigning them some kind of upvote based on whatever criteria they have. Not all of my answers have been upvoted, but most of them have received something. I haven't checked what I'm averaging, but it seems like it's in the 2-3 STEEM range, with a couple of them in the 7-9 STEEM range and quite a few more in the 3-5 range. A lot of 1 STEEM ones, too. I try to avoid questions where I can't give a more comprehensive answer, thus solicit a higher reward. There's quite a few people who have the opposite tack, getting a lot of 0.3-0.4 upvotes. To each his own, I guess.
Curie has been even harder to come by lately, I feel. I'm not sure why that is other than STEEM has dropped, but it took a while for a post of mine this month to get accepted. So, whatever I'm doing, if I want to gain their attention some more, I need to figure something else out.
Great conversation starter here Glen.
If Cap'n is worthy, then aren't Black Panther and others worthy too? And if worthiness is the final determinate, Thor's sister shouldn't be able to world or break it either.
For that matter, Silver Age Thor, right before he was banished by Odin to become Donald Blake (to learn humility) he shouldn't have been able to wield the hammer. Let's face it: Thor is a jerk sometimes!
This would make a good What If comic...What If All Worthy People Wielded Mjolnir?
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Hey, @protegeaa.
It's quite possible that the period of time in the first Thor movie where Thor couldn't move it was based on the Donald Blake arc. My guess about Hela being able to do what she did was because she was essentially becoming as powerful as Odin, or at the very least, was able to override the spell placed on it by Odin.
re: What If
There's probably something like that already. When looking for some information for my post, it seems like What if figured prominently in a few story lines, including some rather unworthy ones.
Forget that there's actual physics to all of this that is being overcome just with the mere fact that anyone can lift it, worthy or not, or that it actually sit on a table, the floor, or even the ground, without crashing through it. :)
Was it the movie or fan discussions about an elevator being able to move it and Vision, being a machine, was basically an elevator?
😂
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It was definitely in the movie--could have been a part of fan discussions, too, though.
As I replied to someone else, I don't know why Cap and Iron Man were using the elevator theory when in the first Thor movie, Stan Lee wasn't able to pull it out with his truck, which would have basically been the same theory.
So, I'm not convinced the elevator would move the hammer, or that it should. Besides, the hammer is supposed to weigh an immense amount anyway, so we're already overcoming the laws of physics with it just existing anywhere on Earth. :)
My understanding of Vision was, he might not be human, but that he was actually sentient and at least in that moment, motivated by the purest of intents. And, also, there was a need to move the movie along so that the Avengers would stop bickering over whether Vision was friend or foe, and go after the real villain. So, when there's a need, there's a way (to lift the hammer. :)
On a mystical note, him being an embodiment of one of the six Infinity gems was also important.
I mean, I think many of the holders of stones in the comics would be able to hold it (Drax, Adam Warlock, whoever holds the Reality gem...).
My comic knowledge is mostly stuck in the 90's 😂
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Wasn't the hammer destroyed in the last Thor movie? I thought his sister crushed it with one hand.
I don't think Captain America would be able to lift it. It should be a bond between Thor and Mjolnir. Otherwise, you'd have worthy babies slinging that thing around. Just my two cents. :)
Hey, @themanwithnoname.
A worthy two cents, I might add. :)
The fact that Captain America has lifted it in a few different storylines in the comic book I guess proves he can lift it. Whether he should be able to lift it because of that special Thor bond is a very good question, and I'm sure, is very much open to debate.
In the case of answering this question, I was trying to show why it happened in the comics and didn't happen in the movies.
And yes, as I mention at the bottom of the post, Mjolnir is already destroyed, so the ability for Cap to lift it will be moot, unless we see a major reset of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. :)
I didn't understand the whole destroying it thing. It would be like having Knight Rider, but without Kit. They've made a number of questionable decisions like that in this recent run of movies. I don't watch all of them, but I do like the Thor ones. Thankfully they've been the best.
I think my sons would heartily disagree with you about the Thor movies being the best. :) I like them a lot, but even I would put some other Marvel movies ahead of the Thor films.
re: destroying Thor's hammer
Well, I think it was a very conscious decision on the part of Chris Hemsworth and others to move away from the staid Thor to a more damaged and at least for a while, depowered Thor, who ultimately regains even more strength and power, anyway. I think it also has precedence within the comic books. It's hard to know, though, without searching out every little plot line ever written.
re: questionable decisions
What would you consider to be questionable, given that this is all major make believe anyway? I've rather enjoyed how all of these movies have woven together, and while I have my ideas and preferences, I haven't really picked them apart as much as I have, and could the few DC movies of late.
re: no Kit
I think that might have happened in an episode or two. Didn't last for very long, though. I agree, though, it would have certainly been less exciting of a show. What would Michael Knight ride in then? He'd be like Knight Runner, or Knight Walker. :)
Fantastic response to this question mate. And well worth posting to your page.
And welcome to the 60 rep crew. :)
Hey, @mazzle.
Well, thank you. I thought it might be nice, too. Haven't really demonstrated my Marvel comic book knowledge on my own page yet, so I figured I could give it a shot.
I actually tried to post something earlier, but it got stuck loading for a good three minutes until I removed the check next to post, and then it just published it to musing. I think having an image might have done it, since with this post I added an image after the fact.
re: 60 rep
Thanks. Musing put me over the top in the first few days of November. I think I'm going to stick around musing some more and see what else it can do for me. :)
Right. I can't really remember where I saw it but I read another article about the reason The Vision was able to lift Mjolnir. Apparently he wasn't worthy but was able to lift it because, well, technically he really "wasn't". He didn't really "exist" in a way a normal biological organic human does.
He's just an A.I with tissues, so to speak. So he was able to move it the same way, say, an elevator or a car would be able to move it.
And then again Joss Whedon mentioned it, just as you did, that it was mostly a way of moving the narrative along fast and effectively without having to dawdle with The Avengers pondering on whether The Vision was an ally or not. So yes make him lift Mjolnir. He lifts it. We trust him. Moving on.
I gotta admit I dont like this much, seeing as I'm one of those who really loves Thor's hegemony on Mjolnir. I sort of felt like with the volume of the comics--also like you said--it's inelcutable to make some people ultimately do this in a scene or two. (Even Superman, from D.C, lifted Mjolnir in a Marvel-DC crossover.) Ok cool. But in the movies I was sort of looking forward to and enjoying Thor having that exclusivity.
So it baffled me when, having allowed the Vision lift it, why make it so that the Cap can't. Anyway this comment is getting tedioud and typos are proliferating and my hands hurt and you already gave a brilliant answer to this so...thank you.
Cheers!
Hey, no worries, @rasamuel. Since you asked the question, I'm just glad you liked my answer, and I thought you brought up some good points, too.
I'm inclined to believe Joss Whedon, obviously, since he directed the film. The thing about an elevator or a car moving it, though—the problem is, as far as the MCU goes, that theory gets shot down in the very first Thor movie when Stan Lee's struck is unable to move Thor's hammer when he's trying to pull it out. SHIELD ends up setting up their temporary camp around it, presumably, because they couldn't move it, either.
Well, since Mjolnir is gone, I think you'll get that exclusivity. Now the question remains if someone will be able to wield Stormbreaker. Which according to Thor in Infinity War when answering Star-lord about why they can't all have a Thanos killing weapon would be impossible for mere mortals. Of course, since Thor is prone to exaggeration, who knows, right? :)
Whoa that is true! Oh well there goes that theory LOL
Definitely. We might not neccesarily find out in Avengers 4, though. Or maybe we might haha. At any rate I really can't wait--not just for it as the last installment of this MCU but for its end as the beginning of the new era!
This is why I like you...Always drilling down on the hard-hitting issues. :)
Hey, @galenkp.
That's me. Hard hitting the issues. :)
Actually, I can't take the credit (or the blame) for this one. I just answered a question on musing and decided to make it a post on Steemit. I'd tried that feature earlier without any success and wanted to see if it would work if I waited to add the image later. Apparently, it did. :)
Awesome
Hey, @byzenneger.
Looks like you're new to STEEM. Welcome. What do you think about things so far? I'm wondering also wondering what you thought was awesome about this post?