Self Chosen Death with Nitschke's Suicide Chest

in #freedom7 years ago (edited)

This weekend I was watching an interview - on television - about a controversial topic: the right to decide to die. The Australian - former physician - Philip Nitschke was interviewed. His nickname is Dr. Death. He is the world's best known advocate for a chosen life span. He is now coming up with something new, which he has worked on in the Netherlands in recent years: the Sarco, a suicide chest.

Already for twenty years, Nitschke is working on products to allow people to end their life in an easy and human way. He invests himself in the development of his suicide chest, in which someone dies within a few minutes.

Nitschke, founder of self-determination organisation "Exit International" and author of the suicide manual "The Peaceful Pill", conceived the coffin because members of his self-determination organisation expressed concerns about other existing methods he advises. Some methods are illegal, such as a costly deadly powder from China that can be seized by customs.

There are also drinks available on the internet. But people with a death wish are not always able to swallow. To remove all objections, Nitschke developed the suicide chest. It works with liquid nitrogen, which is legally available. The person in the coffin dies after the liquid is released on the bottom of the chest.

Nitschke thinks nobody will experience an awful death in his machine. "Someone in the coffin feels a bit drunk, disoriented, and then loses consciousness. This happens in about one and a half minute. The oxygen disappears and after five minutes you die." Death is caused by a lack of oxygen in the brain, which eventually stops the heart. "There is no risk of throwing up," says Nitschke. "You lie down, press the button and die."

Only a prototype is currently available. The intention is that people can print and build the chest with a 3D printer. The design files will be provided on the internet.

The designer who designed the box thinks his design will be very useful. "Of course, I had to think about this assignment, it is not an loveable product, at least it's suitable for everyone and safe."

Beginning of September, the organisation "Laatste Wil" (translation: Last Wishes) announced to have found a legally deadly powder for its members. Their members do not want a doctor or supervisor at their bed and do not want to meet the minimum age requirements. They want to die, even when they are not ill. Controlled with own mind and hands, without the need for obscure powders from China or saved/collected medicines.

According to our previous Dutch governments proposal, people would be able to die with the aid of a dedicated supervisor, a specialist in supporting the process of a chosen death, even though there is no incurable suffering as required by euthanasia. It is questionable if this proposal will be implemented due to our recent formed new government that includes two political parties with a Christian background. The rules and laws for euthanasia are indisputable by a large part of our parliament and therefor is not expected to change.

However, members of the organisation "Laaste Wil" ask for more autonomy and no rules to wait for government approval, but allow people to end their life when they are ready.

Nitschke knows that there is demand for a self-chosen death worldwide. "I think it's very mature, it's a right to have an option for a peaceful death, not a right for only ill people, it's a right for everyone," he says. The former physician sees suicide as a fundamental human right. "The society should not have anything to do with it. A peaceful death should be an option, so I'm building this machine."

Nitschke further explains there is no danger of accidents: "We build in a test so people cannot accidentally use the coffin. Your mental abilities are first tested on the basis of a number of questions; To see if you can make clear decisions. If you pass the test, you will get a 4-digit code that you need to type in to open the chest. Only then you can climb into the coffin, then you get the question: Do you want to die? If you press 'yes', you will die peacefully in minutes."

Conclusion


Although this topic is in many countries taboo, in the Netherlands we have quite liberal views and laws with regard to self determination to end your own life. However, it is still required to be of a certain age as well as being irrevocably ill. Although our former ministers wanted to relax the rules, our current ministers may not convert these ideas into new laws because some of the political parties in power have a Christian background. Interestingly, the later is something really strange to me since we supposed to have a secular society, meaning no religious influence on our rules and laws. But the realities are different, apparently! Although such products like Nitschke is developing are controversial, and are not products you would like to see in the shop windows around the corner, I personally believe people shall be able to do what they want, including the decision to end their life - in a human way - when they want to end their life.

Questions

  • What is your view on self determination regarding chosen death?
  • Do you think the government shall prohibit self chosen death by laws?
  • Do you think a product like Nitschke's suicide chest should be forbidden?


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I have a really hard time with this. My grandmother passed away last month, and seeing her going downhill and suffering a lot her last few years made me wish for something like euthanasia.

On the other hand, my mother was given 6 months to live with a rare type of cancer. Two years later, she's 100% cancer free and in better health than she's been in several decades. What if she'd chosen this machine? Not because she actually wanted to die, but because of the odds given to her?

I'm also a suicide attempt survivor, and struggle with mental illness and suicidal thinking. Most of the time, I don't want to die. I'm extremely grateful I survived my attempt. If I had used the machine, that wouldn't have happened.

Ultimately I do believe it's a person's choice to end their life or not, and I don't think it should be illegal. But it still makes me feel extremely concerned and conflicted.

(edited for typo)

I fully understand your point of view; Views I do respect and even have myself, to some degree. Fact is this topic is very difficult, since I do want freedom of choice, but indeed, cases does exist for which 100% freedom is not good at all. I think I would opt for something our politicians are proposing, the requirement of some specialist (psychologist or so) who will first go through a cycle of talks with the one who wants to die with the option to not allow a chosen self death. Maybe some minimum time frame is required between first consult and last to cover for bad and good periods in the 'patients' life.

The option not to allow self death determined by psychologist, is not the freedom I like to see, but maybe a good way to see how that works and in how many cases the psychologist conclusion is a different one to the one who likes to leave our planet.

I'm sorry to hear your experiences and the situation you are in. But I'm glad you are still around and feel happy to be on planet earth as well as your openness to talk about it.

I also don't like the idea of leaving it up to a psychologist. It seems to still be stripping that freedom away and giving too much power to someone else whom I don't trust to necessarily be subjective.

I DO really like the idea of the time frame, though. That would help bypass people like me whose moods swing. It might also help someone catch situations where people are being abused and that's why they want an out. So maybe they can get actual help and decide later if death is still what they want.

And thank you for your kind words. It's tough, but I'm good! Definitely glad to be around. What I've been through is helpful for me to discuss tough topics like the one you propose, given I can relate it to personal experiences instead of just pure theories.

Great you are good!

And indeed, someone who can talk from experience is what is best when having the discussions. I think that counts for any topic we as a society need to take decisions on. It would be sooo good when experienced people get a dominating vote for those topics they have the experience of.

Again, I appreciate you openness really much. Not that many do and that tells a lot about you, all positive!

I think everybody should be able to decide for himself how and when he will pass away. If you can't determine that yourself, it means that your body is the property of somebody else (for example the state).

However, with this choice comes a very big responsibility. I'm afraid many will use this as a quick way out and make stupid decisions. I think it should be almost like a duty of society to inform each other about the value of life and to raise their children right.

But still, it should be the individual's ultimate choice..

I agree, but I do propose some process and involvement of specialist to determine together with the one who wants to end their life, if that is indeed what that persons wants, now and also in lets say 1 or 2 months time. I think when we do not implement something like a process, but we relax the laws such that people can easily and safely end their lives; we will see next to people who decide to quickly, also abuse with others convincing someone to end their life for whatever reasons.

Yes, that would be more sensible than just release the machine for everyone to use. However, we also have to take it into account that commiting suicide is also possible without this machine and it can also happen because of stupid decisions or persuasion by other people at this moment.

Agree and indeed suicide can also happen in different ways, but lets try to not force people anymore into jumping in front of a train or from a building. That harms others mentally. I'm not necesarily in favour of this machine in private hands, but any method is good for me, eg medicine or whatever, but with the support of some 3rd party person who knows how the the medicine shall be taken and this person shall by law not be a murderer.

I agree, that would be a good idea.
That's exactly what I mean: the fact that people make bad decisions is not an argument against this machine, because it happens now too, without the machine. Of course we shouldn't force people to commit suicide by other means, but we also shouldn't prevent someone from taking his own life, because that would mean the person doesn't possess his own life and body.

Freedom is important indeed; Support by others as well.

Volgens mij zijn de velen die nu tegen euthanasie zijn, dezelfden die, als ze op latere leeftijd afglijden naar een leeg en/of pijnlijk en traag einde, het hardste roepen om er "iets" aan te doen. Doelende op een versneld, niet natuurlijk, einde....
Hier in België hebben we een redelijk strenge wet daaromtrent, die we ten tijde van een regering zonder CDV (Christen-Democraten) kunnen maken hebben. Nu dat ze terug mee aan de macht zijn, proberen ze er alles aan te doen om dit uit te hollen. Toevallig vandaag nog in de pers roepen ze op om de regel, op basis van "ondraaglijk en uitzichtloos psychisch lijden" te verstrengen.
Voor mezelf zou er een versoepeling mogen komen, of een extra mogelijkheid om vanaf een bepaalde leeftijd, laat ons zeggen 75 of 80 jaar, het recht te hebben om euthanasie te vragen/krijgen. En dat bovendien deze wens ook daadwerkelijk ingewilligd moet worden. Nu kan er (hier in België) door een arts of een kliniek geweigerd worden. Het is zelfs zo dat, indien een kliniek weigerd, er ook niemand van buiten die kliniek dit mag komen uitvoeren.
Ik begrijp soms niet de visie van de gelovigen niet... volgens hen mag je geen leven beëindigen, want dat is de taak van God... maar je mag wel een lever/hart/nieren/longen etc... van iemand anders gebruiken om het leven te verlengen. Eerlijk gezegd zie ik het verschil niet...verkorten of verlengen... Een pilletje om langer te leven, of een pilletje om minder lang te leven...

Ik ben het helemaal met je eens betreft jet meten met twee maatstaven vanuit gelovigen. Ook ben ik het eens met versoepeling van regelgeving. Ik vind zelfs dat eimand van 20 jaar oud euthanasie mag vragen en krijgen. Wel moet er een traject zijn met deskundigen om te bepalen of de doodswens eerlijk en blijvend is (dus bv niet opgedrongen door anderen, bv niet in depressive staat die tijdelijk is) en te helpen met het overlijden zelf, dus de juiste middelen aanlevert om er zo voor te zorgen dat de daad ook daadwerkelijk lukt. In NL wile we die kant uit, maar nu met 2 Christelijke partijen in de regering zal die stap nog ff op zich moeten wachten.

Die leeftijd die ik er op plakte van 75/80 jaar, zou een leeftijd zijn waarop je sneller tot euthanasie zou kunnen overgaan. En idd iemand van 20 heeft daar ook recht op, met de regels die jij beschrijft. Het zou maar erg zijn dat er een jongeling is die een dipje heeft en het effe niet ziet zitten, dat ze zeggen na twee minuten "OK, neem plaats,...opgelet, er komt een prikje"... Het gaat er vooral om, om mensen te helpen...wat duidelijk niet het geval zou zijn bij die jongeling...

Zelfs voor de 75/80 jarige is een traject nodig denk ik; Alleen al om te voorkomen dat ze de dood ingejaagd worden door hun kinderen vanwege een erfenis of zo. Gevallen waar iemand zegt: "ik ben klaar met het leven, heb alles meegemaakt, mijn vrienden zijn overleden" en dat consistent is, daar moet een oplossing voor komen. Maar ook voor al die mensen die het leven echt niet aankunnen, consistent zijn in hun wens over tijd. Ik ben echt benieuwd wat er in NL aan regelgeving aangepast zal worden komen periode. Ik hoop dat de regelgeving in België snel beter wordt.

Wij hebben volgend jaar verkiezingen...en om het in woorden te zeggen die een beetje in de sfeer blijven: Hoop doet leven...

Es raro, no creo que sea malo, el sistema estaría agradecido a la disminución de la población mundial de manera voluntaria.
Si es que la persona decide morir, y antes de ello (Seguramente pagar por la máquina) tomarse el trabajo y ser consciente de su muerte.
Estaría en su derecho.
...Pero como dije...."Es raro".

hmmm, my Spanish (or Portuguese) is very bad, can you please turn to English?

He says:

It's strange. I don't think it's a bad thing, the system would be thankful for a decrease of the world population in a voluntary manner.
If a person decides to die, and before that (of course pay for the machine) working for it and be conscious of his death.
It would be his right.
...But as I said... "It's strange".

In general I think people shall have the freedom to decide if they want to leave their life. I'm not sure if this machine will be the answer since I can see some flaws in it. 3D printing the machine is currently still very expensive for instance. And the comfortable chair can not be printed at this point in time. I do think we shall lobby more at government level to get the laws in place that people can be supported by others who know what they do, without being called a murderer. What this guy of this machine says and thinks, I'm not sure; some of the stuff he said in the interview, I don't like really much, but the master point he makes (all people shall have the right to end their lives) I agree with. But I also she the difficulties, like someone else convincing somebody else to end their live, and people who now think they want to end their life, but in 2 days are ok again with their life. Therefore the solution can only be by involving independent specialist in the process for somebody to think he/she wants to end their life to the moment it will actually be ended (or not).

EDIT: now I realise you translated this other users chat to which I requested to post in English. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this.

Misschien moet je deze tekst ook in het Nederlands plaatsen. Volgens mij zou er wel eens een pittige discussie kunnen ontstaan.
En laat het nu juist dat zijn wat we willen.....

Ik ga ervan uit dat er maar erg weinig Steemians zijn die geen Engels kunnen lezen :) Al praat het op de 1 of andere manier wel makkelijker in mijn eigen moedertaal, ik ben eigenlijk van mening dat Steemit nu nog zoveel mogelijk in een min of meer universele taal bediend moet worden. Overigens probeerde ik juiste reactie uit bv USA te krijgen, het land waar de conservatieven in hun politieke strijdt vaak naar NL verwijzen als het land waar iedereen een euthanasie pil op het nachtkastje heeft liggen.

Je kan je artikels ook in tweevoud maken, en in het Engels, en in het Nederlands. Zo wordt alvast je bereik groter en het is niet zoveel extra werk, plus je publiceert dan wel 2X zoveel artikels.
Is maar een tip...
Ik bijvoorbeeld, kan/ken wel Engels, maar ben soms te lui om de wat langere artikels te lezen

Dank je voor je tip. Ik hou er alleen niet van om 2x artikels te plaatsen die eigenlijk hetzelfde zijn. Vind ik community vervuiling. Dan zou ik tweetalig in 1 post kunnen schrijven; Daar hou ik dan als lezer weer niet van. Ik denk toch dat ik het bij het Engels hou voorlopig. Maar nogmaals dank voor het meedenken en je adviezen.

This article is good

not a good choice

Why not?

This post has received a 0.17 % upvote from @drotto thanks to: @banjo.

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