Is There A Point To Company Tax?
Hey Jessconimsts
As economic disparity continues to widen and the rest of the world looks keen to catch up with South Africa's Gini coefficient, many politicians are calling for taxing the rich and of course taxing the companies. The only way to correct the wealth gap is to put into law a way to remove wealth from the rich, so it can be given to bureaucrats and somehow trickled back to the ordinary citizen through various social relief programs and jobs.
Taxing companies more has long been echoed as the solution to all our problems if we can make more money out of working businesses that satisfy consumer needs we can do more with it than they can do in the market with the funds their goods and services earn them.
The profit motive
Companies all over the world, large and small open their doors each day with the idea of making money. That's what they there for and their only objective. Providing goods and services that people want and make their lives easier and people are WILLING to pay for in exchange for these goods and services. Company income is just a fancy way of saying we're grouping everyone's labour involved in the company and focusing it on something that is profitable and that the market wants.
Avoiding the burden
Governments look to companies as a source of revenue using capital gains tax, corporate tax and in some cases, value-added tax. While some companies with means will look to use creative accounting to reduce their tax obligations and pay accountants large sums of money to do so, it creates a world for ineffective use of capital. Instead of companies using their wealth to grow more extensive and more competitive and reduce prices, they are hoarding cash in tax havens and making accountants and bankers rich to help them avoid paying tax.
Since you get well nothing for paying tax, this creates an artificial need for bankers and accountants while moving the capital from production to financialisation as to not be punished by the government. Reducing the possibility of job growth and defeating the purposes of the taxes in the first place.
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Corporate tax collectors
Companies don't earn money; they are a holder for income based on a groups labour. So how can something that doesn't make money pay taxes? Companies don't pay taxes; they're merely following a ruling by the government to work as more efficient tax collectors from the people. In the case of value-added tax, companies aren't paying that, they are passing the cost onto the consumer, and you pay that additional tax, making your purchasing power weaker and stripping you of more wealth.
So before you think that tax the companies is the simple fix, remember, for every tax out there, somehow the consumer ends up paying for it. The only ones trading labour for cash, are the only taxable sources in any economy.
Have your say
What do you good people of steem think? Are you for taxes? Against taxes? Want moderate taxes?
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Yes we the consumer pay the tax.
Posted using Partiko Android
If you want policies that need extra taxes I feel you should pay for it, but don't make all of us pay for it.
It'll be the same problem as the so-called free health care system in Canada.
They will tax the rich, which is still theft. Then you the individual have to jump through hoops to fill out papers, read documents and prove why and how you are elligible for said relief effort, and then you may still not get anything from it, and you are still being robbed by the government in the form of taxes. The governments hence gaining more tax money from people who worked hard to build successful businesses.
People will believe the BS because it's the Robin Hood effect, but Robin Hood STOLE money. Theft is theft and it's immoral no matter who does it and what the intentions are. And taxation is also theft. You don't fix theft with more theft. You STOP thieving!
And then, if you ARE eligible, then you'll be on a waiting list, or have to abide by their rules and such.
Health care here is just like that. Take their pills for a free therapist. You don'T want to take the pills, ok, you have less choice of therapists. Oh, you ahve your own? No, we won'T help you pay them. Oh, you've got knee problems. Sure, we'll give you pain relief, you can have a free operation. It'll take 6 months before you can have it. 6 months later, Oh it's another 6 months. Oh it's another 6 months. Well you can always pay to go private and be healed today.
So In the end of all that you still forced to bare the cost of health care out of your own pocket plus the tax!
Then the tax you normally pay! It’s shambolic,when you look at how this system keeps going in all it’s inefficiencies and the knock on effects it has!
Free health care doesn’t mean quality health care! People who are assured of the job and salary have no motive to render high quality service or improve services to remain competitive
People study these fields only for the salary and not because they are passionate or have the aptitude for it! The salaries and value chain are propped up by taxes going into the wrong places
If we allow markets to run it’s course, yes their will be less money floating around but it will be used more effectively! We would get cheaper care, more effective care: we would be able to price compare and discover and have more options
Yes people will fall through the cracks, not get care they need but that’s no different from right now! All I want is for people to Abel to choose the care they want not to be forced into take or die!
The government is only good at keeping corporatations alive that would otherwise collapse if customers had their say
Exactly!
A lot of people don't see it this way, though. I get stuck at "free health care" thinking it's free for real. They buy into the socialist mindset that they grew up with, fed to them by government, repeated constantly. You end up believing in the sayings without asking yourself why or what's behind them, without thinking critically about it to form your own thoughts about it. Everyone believes in it, so everyone else does too.
And then I'm told I'm impressionable and do what others do... Not sure I grasp that one lol
I completely understand where you’re coming from and I get the same responses! South Africa is so called “democratic socialist” country and since we’ve got the whole apartheid legacy and Blatent corruption the country sort of jumps between okay and complete chaos! We have the highest wealth gap in the world it’s like two different countries just taking a quick drive
I guess with Canada the amount of wealth and population still allows for the disparity to seen smaller and you can get on okay! Since it hasn’t gone to total shit people think we’ll okay it’s working let’s keep at it
While those who have fallen into the trap are well embarrassed and keep quiet and those who aren’t are just well at least it didn’t happen to me and are dismissed for being lazy or financially reckless
Last year I had two job offers in Canada which I was seriously considering because of the raging blackouts here and when I did my cost of living calculations I was like no thank you. I’ll slum it over here lol
Also you guys strictly enforce laws that well here we don’t really give two shits about and you can get away with a lot because of well everything is a cock up lol I’m kinda used to it so in ways it can be a benefit
But back to the socialist ideals all great on paper but it cannot he run on a large scale! Socialism has its place it works great in small doses if you and your community all want to contribute to things like setting up solar power for your neighbourhood sure we all contribute to get the costs covered and we all benefit
But when I pay and someone else benefits to me it’s an inefficient use of capital and telling me I 30 cents of every dollar I earn I’m too stupid to know what to do with it
People like to Pull the oh it’s your duty it’s not! If everyone looks after themselevs there will be less people that need taking care of and we will have people with funds and free time to reach out and help those in need in a local level
Joseph Goebells would be so proud to see how well the socialist propaganda machine obliterates logic and sound thinking, maths and history
For sure.
My husband was explaining to my brother who has Asperger's that if he did not ahve to pay so many taxes, he would have extra funds to give to my bro. My bro cannot work right now, Autistic + burnout, way worse burnout than me. He is on wellfare. If he manages to be better and can work for a few months like a small contract, or one day per week, he loses that wellfare benefit. But he cannot work a lot if he can, and he would liek to try working, then stop if it's too much, but because if he does that, the wellfare would not start up again, he is not incentivised by the government to ever TRY to be able to get well enough to work, for the fear of not succeeding ENOUGH. BUT if we didn't pay taxes or not as many, my husband would be able to help my bro get by, voluntarily, and when my bro can work, the extra funds stop, and when he has to stop working again and take a good long break for his health, funds return. This would then incentivise him to at least try, give it an honest shot, then if he needs to stop, it's ok, and then later try again. The socialist system does not encourage people to be autonomous.
I call situations like that the fast food restuarant ayndrome! Its like going into a fast food restuarant and asking them for a burger but no tomato and youll pay the same anount! The system is so rigid that theyll tell you they cant youll just need to take it as is and remove the tomato yourself! Well not sure if they like that on your side of the world but here its prett much like that!
Its not that what you’re asking is impractical and cannot be done or really affects the system in any way that your brother should have to choose between work and a safety net but adminstration of any government program is single minded and rhey are so far remoced from the reality of things
I do agree that these safety nets reduce the troughs but they also reduce the peaks! I believe that their are more honest hard working people who would have capacity for private charity if they got more money for their labour and needed less work hours to earn a living wage
Maybe I live in a fantasy land! Lol
I don't think it's unrealistic to think that there can be a system where wages are balanced out with capacity and all that. The constant printing of money causes inflation, because there is no longer any gold per dollar printed equilibrium, so the dollar is devaluating. So they tax more. If there were less taxes, less needless printing of money, there would be less of a need for higher wages. Right now it's an all or nothing system, with no in-betweens. We need more in-betweens.
Six years ago my doctor (who saw me the next day after calling about swollen lymph nodes) sent me to an ear, eyes and throat specialist (within a single didget amount of days) who diagnosed me with tongue cancer. No documentation or paperwork comes to mind to kick in a 5 star team of specialists who worked me through their system in record time to save my life.
There is a triage system built into medicare. Perhaps you think you need something that trained professionals disagree with you.
My ailment could have easily bankrupted me in the US. Everyone in a country as wealthy as yours deserves required medical attention regardless of the cost.
My feeling is that you are doing our medicare system a disservice,@binkyprod, with your exagerated presentation of how it works.
I'm glad to know that you got the care you needed. However, I am not exaggerating when my husband's mother had been waiting for years for her operation. There is obviously a unbalance somewhere and perhaps it is different from province to province.
Did the market want an opiate addiction crisis in the US or did Big Pharma's agents push oxycontin through GPs with profit as the goal?
You seem to be confusing marketing with the market. In my opinion, only when the means of production is in the hands of the people and decisions made for the greater good of the people, instead of profit as the benchmark, will we see a better distribution of wealth and not the poverty from abundance which capitalism creates.
Well I'm not in control of market forces the market changes when regulations are put into place and creates unnatural results. I mean in your case you mentioned now if there was less regulation consumers could opt for natural pain relief and things like CBD, they are funneled into this channel through regulation.
The medical both private and public support the value chain because they are incentivised to do so and there is no competition. In this case big pharma gets bigger by lobbying and reducing consumer options.
If people want to take prescription meds thats their right if they want to use natural medicine thats their right too. I like the idea of putting the onus on the consumer like here are all your options, pick the one thats right for you.
Not people telling others whats right for them, even if they are a GP. Qualified opinion or not, when it comes to someones body they should have the authority to say what goes into it.
When you have choice, you keep the other guy on his toes!
We are in agreement on that point of authority. However a health care system which is driven by profit instead of the best interest of those in need of medical care does not make sense to me.
It is very difficult - therefore the whole world is organized as it is - we have yet to find a fair formula for everyone. Or change the very concept of money - and it will happen unequivocally!
I don't believe there is a thing as fair, that is a ideal that has pushed us into these unnatural markets filled with regulation, be it good intentions or masked as good intentions.
I think it will only change if it collapses, which I think is a terrible way of pushing change but I guess thats how humans feel they would like to learn
Bro we push every day) and I think we will push this stone into the abyss of history!
I would rather corporations put their money into paying their employees more, than giving the money to the government, but sadly, when you leave it up to giant corporations, most will just pocket that money and the CEO will have yet another hooker and blow party on their yachts.
I am a small business owner, but it is a lot different for me than it is for the owner of a multi billion dollar corporation. One that we are struggling to control here is Amazon. They do not pay a livable wage (for 2020 and the expense of everything) and a lot of their employees are subsidized through programs paid for by the federal government (aka the taxpayer) so we are paying for benefits for employees that should be covered by the company. The cost is ALWAYS passed on to us.
What really killed me is when Jeff Bezos was talking about his fortune and said "I have so much money I don't know what to do with it."
ಠ_ಠ
All Amazon employees with nearly zero bathroom breaks and shitty pay all cry out in the same look of disapproval
I am not saying that the government does a great job with our taxes. They don't. Most of it goes into military spending and our precious money is used to make and buy weapons that kill innocent civilians in the middle east, however leaving corporations up to doing as they please with the money isn't the best solution either.
People can be fucking evil man.
It's a complicated situation. Thanks for sharing what goes down in South Africa, I had no idea. I am stuck in my little US bubble. :)
Can I just start by saying this is the most fire 🔥 comment I’ve read in a long time! I feel so much of what you’re saying and you phrase it so well!
I totally agree employees should be paid more loads of people are not getting a living wage and being made poorer through inflation.
Amazon is not a success they just found the best way to steal within the confines of the current system they have been receiving so much money to prop up themselves while they obliterate business after business and industry after industry
They only able to do this because they have a preferential access to capital since it’s all funneled through Wall Street that’s where all big capital allocations are made and with that comes zombie companies sucking up funds
We can’t have a free market where small and big can compete if the money is controlled centrally and disruption is done preferentially which is why I believe so much in crypto
I’d say the government said tomorrow we going to stop printing cash these companies would be forced to use their own capital instead of sitting on it! They would get no yield and they would need to use it as working capital and flow it into the economy! At the moment there is an incentive to horde and then use it as leverage
People can be evil for sure and we can count on it which is why we need a system that encourages even the wrong persons to be doing the right thing
Lol well I don’t know much about the US only what I read im sure the real life experience is far different and you have more insight than I could ever read about! Would like to visit one day just to get my mind around how it operates on that side of the world
Complain will not change anything, try to build a company and you will have a different vision.
I do own my own company I’ve been running it for 4 years now so I think I know both sides of the story and those are my observations from being both and employee and an entrepreneur and it is actually irrelevant and to dismiss my arguments because you assume my ignorance is also not a constructive argument
In that case, you can be the actor of a change in South Africa with the knowledge of both sides.
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