Carp Contol Action Plan Meeting.
Or: - A Crap Public Meeting about Carp Control. Australians must stand against the release of cypranid herpevirus in our Waterways!
Far from an enlightening discussion on the benefits of introducing a virus to the Australian waterways, the presentation tonight was a glib sales pitch which was well polished, answered none of the serious questions and relied heavily on ifs, shoulds, and should nots, and maybes.
Presenter, Matt Barwick, sounded like a car sales man as he glossed over most of the serious issues and answered few questions. All he kept telling us was that this was part of a control measure to reduce carp.
The long and short of the presentation was that carp are a serious pest to Australian waterways, they are of lesser value than the native fish, and because of their ability to spread and thrive and become an invasive species, they should be eradicated at all costs.
There are a number of flaws in the whole plan and these were glibly dismissed and glossed over, through the use of fancy words like "Prioritised" and "Targeted".
So, a little more detail.
Carp are a medium - reasonably large sized fish native to the continents of Asia and Europe.
They were introduced to Australia in the 1850s. They did not thrive in our warm waters until a hybrid carp was developed in Victoria known as the Boolara strain, which rapidly overran our waterways as they had no serious predation or competition. These fish are very invasive and out compete other species in the region.
Large carp will predate upon and force out other smaller carp, thus controlling territorial beats which smaller fish are driven out of. Their removal means a group of small carp move into an area and there is a negative impact not a positive one as these compete with each other for the available space.
They have increased in numbers to make up a majority percentage in the biomass of the Murray Darling system and are a serious problem to the substrates of many of our waterways, which are clay, not gravel or rock like in many countries they are native to. The fishes feeding method of grubbing in the substrate stirs up the silt and clay, causing problems for plant growth in the waters as not only are the plants actively rooted up, they suffer from decreased light due to lack of water clarity and from silt settling on their leaves. Nutrients are also unlocked from the substrate, often causing algae blooms in the sun soaked, warm water.
The silt also creates problems for many of our fish as hunters, they rely partialy on vision to locate their prey and sight impedance due to silt being stirred up is problematic, particularly in lakes.
The Australian Government has "invested" $15 million dollars into researching Carp Control.
A group has proposed the release of a species specific virus which could have potentially devastating effects on the carp and their populations. If the figures suggested are viable, there is a 90% death rate for fish in infected test waters. The National Carp Control Program has been running a series of public meetings to talk about the program.
The program is still very much in the development stages with many tests and studies still being carried out, or to be carried out. Yet the plan was sold glibly as the only cost effective and viable method of controlling carp populations. It was stressed that this virus could not infect other species, more on that later.
After a slick presentation, Matt gave the floor to a series of political hacks who tried to explain the process of actually getting the program running in the Territory and the legislative hurdles that would have to be crossed.
Onto questions, and after a couple of questions about the procedure of infecting the waterways with infected fish and the health risk they posed to people, I broached the bugbear in its den. I asked the question, very pointedly, that had been skirted around all meeting.
During the presentation, very quickly glossed over was the sentence:-
"The clean up will be prioritised and target a list of areas of reducing importance." Of course public usage was the priority. So I brought up the low priority reaches of rivers and other waterways, and Matt looked pretty displeased, as I mentioned in passing the removal of the willows and what a great plan that was. He had tried to sell the idea that the river side trees would absorb the nutrients and there would be nutrient uptake by the system. He cited the North American salmon runs as an example, ignoring the obvious differences. Despite the fact large numbers of salmon die each year, the cycle has adapted to that and large numbers of predators such as bears, wolves and so on congregate to feast on the carcasses and remove them from the system. The rivers are running fast with melt and the water is kept fresh. In Australia we have no predator for carp, there is no imprinted memory driving predators to fish kill zones and there is little vegetation left up to the water's edge on many rivers. This means little to no nutrient uptake from the system, which means the fish just sink and rot, releasing ammonia and creating an anoxic environment nothing can live in. I asked about the low priority areas, and he wanted nothing to do with an answer. He just reassured us that a comprehensive plan would be worked out. Oh, sure. I also pointed out that the virus was only effective between 20 and 28 degrees, perfect for our low water periods, which means little flow through the river and lakes, thus they corpses will just stay and rot in the water.
The effects of animals rotting in water are very different to in the open air where gasses can dissipate, yet Matt kept harking back to the Colisi Virus. 1000 dead rabbits in the field might smell bad, 100 dead carp in a pond will poison it to the point of death for all creatures in it. there is no comparison.
My son asked about the virus mutating, and although we had been re-assured multiple times that the virus would not cross infect, suddenly he changed the tune to if it was to mutate, although the chances were slender, the effect on our native fish would be "catastrophic". He also reassured us that the carp were "unlikely" to develop resistance, but if they did, another more virulent form of the virus could be developed for release. Oh, joy in my heart!
So the upshot is, they have no idea of how to clean it up, no concept of the impact and are using us a test case to see if everything, and I do mean everything, goes balls up in a big way.
READ MORE ON THESE POSTS:-
https://steemit.com/science/@andyfishman/one-great-idea-to-follow-another-nothing-could-possibly-go-wrong
Thanks to @realtreebivvy for bringing to my attention the UK scientists who are warning of a major disaster. His article from the Guardian enabled me to verify it at the University of East Anglia web site.
https://www.uea.ac.uk/about/-/researchers-warn-of-serious-risks-from-australia-s-carp-control-plans
Oh, good grief! So many gaping holes! Will they never learn? Did they perchance mention how they planned to restock the native fish when they kill the whole eco system off?
90% success rate. Sounds like the rabbits all over again. Myxomatosis killed them all off...no wait, it didn't and the survivors developed resistance. So another strain and another, then more viruses, all killing them slowly and painfully...Aren't we such good people!
Yep, and when asked about resistance by my son, he fobbed it off, and promised more virulent strains. It is an absolute train wreck waiting to occur.
No, there was no mention except by me of the die off due to polluted waterways, polluted of course by the masses of dead carp in "low priority areas" (meaning about 80% of the system).
He kept deflecting back to the virus not affecting natives, I kept interrupting to steer him back to toxic soup killing the natives, and the birds, mammals and other creatures which rely on the water source, limited as it is in this country. He got annoyed and asked if I wanted an answer, I replied, yes, but to my question. I do not think he liked me much.
I hope there were a few others he didn't like too! Please tell me you and your son weren't the only ones asking the necessary questions.
Most people were concerned about it, and concerned about its risk to people. And their use of the waterways. It was not until I brought up the damage to the rest of the environment that it really sank in and a couple of others followed up pressing Matt for a more comprehensive answer than the nothing he gave me. And mutation was not touched on until Aedon brought it up. I think he hoped no-one would mention it and he could just ignore it. He certainly was in a hurry to get of that topic.
As to the cruelty of the kill method, he had nothing for me when I braced him about it after the meeting, just said it was a concern they would have to address.
Oh, and as to survival, infected fish only develop the disease in waters between 20 and 28 degrees, so winter and summer won't see fish die offs, meaning the fish are infected not sick, all the more chance for resistance. Also, it was never mentioned what continuous ingestion of the fish might do to cod and other predators. Long term effects seem to be being ignored in order to get it out as quickly as possible.
Humans have a great track record in messing up the Australian biome. This won't be like the other times, this time it will work.
Sheesh.
Oh, ye of little faith, what makes you doubt that THIS time they have it all figured out? After all, they are VERY confident that it will not impact native fish and other organisms...and they will clean up a portion of the mess created!
Seriously, nature and evolutionary forces have worked for thousands and thousands of years to strike a delicate balance the keep species in check and we think we can come up with a band-aid. Good luck, the unknown, uncontrollables are too many.
That old definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result!
Can't resist, has to be done.
At least it seems there are a lot of people against this happening.
http://www.murrayvalleystandard.com.au/story/5046841/fishers-plan-alternative-to-carp-virus-release/
I am sure that the cat food industry and other fishing industries could put carp meat to a lot better use!
However, this then would require for "politicians" to stand behind their words and lobby for the "capitalistic" approach to issues, which in this "modern" world we live in doesn't get votes!
What is a "pest" could very well become a resource and as such, because of its invasive nature and instinct to survive, we won't have to worry about them vanishing from our water ways any time soon. Decades if not centuries!
Long live the 50's when Sir Robert Menzies was around, when proactive and constructive logic prevailed and not "political popularity".
Jack
Well, to be fair, Menzies was a little short sighted selling scrap metal to Japan, it earned him the nickname Pig Iron Bob which followed him for years post war. But your point is well taken.
Even a bounty offered would be of benefit because it might actually create an interest in carp angling as a viable industry, with associated benefits of relieving fishing pressure on other species and removing the carp and redfin manually in a coordinated and ordered fashion. The kickbacks are increased revenue for angling stores, a tourist industry can be built around them and all sorts of benefits for communities if the government "buys" the fish for a bounty, composts them and utilises that for improving soils in many regions which have been degraded by farming and agricultural use.
One of the proposed uses was fish meal, because that can't end badly...
Dude, different times, different approach, what was "scrap" to us, a pile of "rubbish" was = cash in hand for the budget.
Again, proactive and constructive thinking.
The whingers are the ones that wouldn't have done anything with our "rubbish" back then and when someone does something constructive with it then they like friggin wanna be generals after the battle is all over and done with start BSing how "we should have done this and that instead".
But, yeah, no matter what the "political popularity" may have been the actions taken were for the good of our nation and not for "votes".
Too bad we don't have that type of mind frame nowadays among the bulk of the "candidates" who want a nice cushy little chair to sit in!
Oh, I meant slight on the policy, just the outcome of the nick name. He was a damned sight better than any of the posers that are in the House now. Career politicians ought to be banned.
Jack Lang was another, although on the opposite side, who did not sit on his hands, but got things done. Building the Harbour bridge through the depression years possibly saved NSW and Australia from bankruptcy. None of our politicians have any fortitude now.
Thanks Jack. That sounds like a good recipe. The problem is fisherman are possibly more reluctant to part with recipes than the location of the honey hole! You would think that, once learning of the recipe, everyone will run out and take all available fish to make the dish. I appreciate the effort you went to for this and will put it to the test, I just need a cauldron now...
Dude, I made one myself, old beer keg, cut the top off (about 1/3rd of the keg) used a piece of steel, bent it over the keg to make it roundish and then drilled two holes in the keg and put it in to make the handle.
As for the tripod, I used construction reinforcing steel, pieces of scrap found at a big building site. 14 or 16 mm.
at the top of it I put a big mama of a washer and made a makeshift handle for twisting the chain that hung off it.
I'm too lazy to go take a photo of mine, but here are some pics off the net:
Here in the video below is the handle thingamobob on the tripod that I was talking about.
Hope this helps.
That is great!
Reading your article makes me wish I knew how to ask the right questions when a bunch of baffoons show up with brilliant tweaks to fix the ecosystem.
"The fishes feeding method of grubbing in the substrate stirs up the silt and clay,"
"Nutrients are also unlocked from the substrate, often causing algae blooms in the sun soaked, warm water."
I live in northeastern US. in an area with a number of lakes and large ponds (with muddy clay bottoms). Algae is always a problem because so many septic systems run downhill, and eventually into the lake. The solution to the algae is the introduction of carp!
We do have cold 1/2 the year. I think that carp have to be periodically reintroduced because they die out. But I would very much appreciate any insight you might have on the contradiction between the info in your post and this policy.
Thanks and thanks for your post. Interesting reading. Is there any way for you to appeal the plan? or are you just screwed?
From the way the talk was going last night, they were very postitve it would go ahead, but couched it in terms that sounded as if there might still be a chance to change the course. However, I am guessing it is a foregone conclusion.
Carp do not eat algae as a major part of their diet, and certainly not the water suspended algaes and diatoms that turn the water green.
The solution would be to plant more high order plants, get reed beds and willow stands in place along the margins, vallisneria and elodea are useful to reduce the nutrient load in the substrate and to bind the substrate through rooting, and can be harvested to remove nutrient from the system. A variety of floating plants are also good nutrient control, and again can be harvested to remove nutrients and reduce the nutrient load in the pond.
Carp prevent the growth of these high order plants by actively rooting them up, eating them and covering them with the silt stirred up. There is little benefit on this front of having carp in the pondages. Catfish would do the same job and be a preferable fish.